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Flush your brake fluid!
- Thread starter frequencydip
- Start date
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Pretty much what I was imagining, a rip off, but something you probably want to do in case they find something wrong that could be fixed under warranty.
This used to be the standard operating procedure. Rear axle fluid level was checked and grease was applied to dozens of fittings as part of a "Lube Job." It had to be changed on a schedule as well. Tires never lasted 10,000 miles either. This was after 70 years of automobile development. It was much worse when it started!
We are so spoiled.
GSP
PS. There is nothing different about an EV's brakes, except for lack of wear. You still can take your chances and go 20 years without maintence, or you can keep them in top shape by changing the fluid every two years. Synthetic brake fluid was supposed to be good for a lifetime fill, but never caught on for some reason.
Fron a manufactureres web site of synthetic brake fluids:
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
AMSOIL Series 500 DOT 3 High-Performance Synthetic Brake Fluid and AMSOIL Series 600 DOT 4 Synthetic Racing Brake Fluid use pure base stocks and robust additives to combat boil-off and the effects of water contamination more effectively than conventional brake fluids. AMSOIL Synthetic Brake Fluids deliver superior high-temperature performance in auto/light truck, high-performance, racing and powersports applications.
CONTAMINATION
Water contaminates the brake system by seeping through microscopic pores in flexible brake lines and seals and through the reservoir fill cap when opened. Once inside, it quickly works to corrode brake parts, lines and seals, leading to eventual system failure. AMSOIL Synthetic Brake Fluids keep water in suspension, slowing its corroding effects. Their superior formulation lubricates and protects intricate braking components despite the inevitable water absorption associated with braking systems, delivering longer-lasting performance compared to conventional fluids.
BOIL-OFF
The extreme pressure and high heat common to braking can push conventional brake fluid beyond its boiling point, causing it to vaporize, or “boil-off.” Even more problematic, water contamination can drop the boiling point of conventional fluid below safe standards, accelerating the rate at which it boils off. This leads to a spongy or unresponsive feeling in the brake pedal. In contrast, the unique chemistry behind AMSOIL Synthetic Brake Fluids push their boiling point temperatures well beyond Department of Transportation (DOT) standards even when contaminated with 3 percent water (see chart). They maintain a stable viscosity over a wide temperature range and flow easily at the highest pressures generated in today’s automotive brake systems to deliver consistent, safe braking. AMSOIL Series 600 DOT 4 Synthetic Racing Brake Fluid features a wet equilibrium reflux boiling point (Wet ERBP) nearly 100°F higher than the DOT minimum, making it the ideal choice for high-performance cars, motorcycles and vehicles used for towing.
POWERSPORTS
The aggressive driving conditions and sudden stops common to some on- and off-road motorcycle and ATV applications can literally boil conventional brake fluid, leaving behind a discolored, dirty solution that can promote deposit formation and corrosion on braking components. Worn brake fluid also fails to deliver adequate protection against water ingress common to powersports equipment exposed to the elements.
The synthetic base stocks and superior additives in AMSOIL Synthetic Brake Fluids excel in demanding powersports applications, providing reliable brake lever and pedal response, corrosion protection and longevity as compared to conventional brake fluids. AMSOIL Synthetic Brake Fluids are the product of choice for racing, heavy hauling or leisure powersports applications.
APPLICATIONS
Consult the AMSOIL Online Product Applications Guide at The Original Synthetic Motor Oil
for application information. For powersports applications, consult the owner’s manual to determine the correct DOT classification.
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
AMSOIL Series 500 DOT 3 High-Performance Synthetic Brake Fluid and AMSOIL Series 600 DOT 4 Synthetic Racing Brake Fluid use pure base stocks and robust additives to combat boil-off and the effects of water contamination more effectively than conventional brake fluids. AMSOIL Synthetic Brake Fluids deliver superior high-temperature performance in auto/light truck, high-performance, racing and powersports applications.
CONTAMINATION
Water contaminates the brake system by seeping through microscopic pores in flexible brake lines and seals and through the reservoir fill cap when opened. Once inside, it quickly works to corrode brake parts, lines and seals, leading to eventual system failure. AMSOIL Synthetic Brake Fluids keep water in suspension, slowing its corroding effects. Their superior formulation lubricates and protects intricate braking components despite the inevitable water absorption associated with braking systems, delivering longer-lasting performance compared to conventional fluids.
BOIL-OFF
The extreme pressure and high heat common to braking can push conventional brake fluid beyond its boiling point, causing it to vaporize, or “boil-off.” Even more problematic, water contamination can drop the boiling point of conventional fluid below safe standards, accelerating the rate at which it boils off. This leads to a spongy or unresponsive feeling in the brake pedal. In contrast, the unique chemistry behind AMSOIL Synthetic Brake Fluids push their boiling point temperatures well beyond Department of Transportation (DOT) standards even when contaminated with 3 percent water (see chart). They maintain a stable viscosity over a wide temperature range and flow easily at the highest pressures generated in today’s automotive brake systems to deliver consistent, safe braking. AMSOIL Series 600 DOT 4 Synthetic Racing Brake Fluid features a wet equilibrium reflux boiling point (Wet ERBP) nearly 100°F higher than the DOT minimum, making it the ideal choice for high-performance cars, motorcycles and vehicles used for towing.
POWERSPORTS
The aggressive driving conditions and sudden stops common to some on- and off-road motorcycle and ATV applications can literally boil conventional brake fluid, leaving behind a discolored, dirty solution that can promote deposit formation and corrosion on braking components. Worn brake fluid also fails to deliver adequate protection against water ingress common to powersports equipment exposed to the elements.
The synthetic base stocks and superior additives in AMSOIL Synthetic Brake Fluids excel in demanding powersports applications, providing reliable brake lever and pedal response, corrosion protection and longevity as compared to conventional brake fluids. AMSOIL Synthetic Brake Fluids are the product of choice for racing, heavy hauling or leisure powersports applications.
APPLICATIONS
Consult the AMSOIL Online Product Applications Guide at The Original Synthetic Motor Oil
for application information. For powersports applications, consult the owner’s manual to determine the correct DOT classification.
Lloyd's post addresses this. In a nutshell, brake fluid is VERY hygroscopic. Once it absorbs water, pistons and bores will corrode. Worse, the water will boil when the brakes get hot. Now you have a compressible fluid (technically, both liquids and gasses are fluids), and braking power will be dramatically reduced. Racers have to be very careful to avoid this, since they push their brakes to the limit.
While synthetics have been available for decades, the older DOT4 fluids still dominate the market. I thought synthetics would take it over, like radial tires and fuel injection. They still may some day, it took many decades for fuel injection to do so.
GSP
Hey everyone, so far only my car has had this issue, so this seams to be an isolated issue. There does not appear to be an issue with EV's or the roadsters breaks until someone else can confirm the same problem.
This is the first I heard of it too and I checked with one of the service managers too who wasn't aware that it was a problem so maybe it is just an isolated incident. Good to know that it's something to watch out for though but it sounds like their policy of every two years for flushing the break fluid might be ok.
strider
Active Member
That's a great question. Supposedly they re-torque all the bolts, clean the PEM and other air-cooled bits, make sure everything's happy, etc. I think it's a huge rip-off. It's hard to tell people that EV's are "so much simpler" mechanically yet I pay more in annual service fees on my Roadster than I have for any car in my life. I'll be interested to see what they're going to do for Model S.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Except in an EV where most of the braking is done with regen, in the Roadsters case with the rear wheels.
Synthetic and DOT 3/4 brake fluid is not exclusive. You can have both - the benefits of synthetic DOT4 fluid is high resistance to overheating and resulting brake fade.
You are probably thinking of DOT5 brake fluid. DOT5 brake fluid is silicone based and does NOT absorb water. But don't go thinking that this solves the brake change interval problem.
Because DOT5 does not absorb fluid, instead what happens is that the water that gets in forms bubbles in the system, creating localized areas where high rates of corrosion can occur - or if this water is close to the brake calipers, very easily boiled fluid.
So if anything, regular flushes of DOT5 fluid is even more important than DOT4.
strider
Active Member
Correct, DOT5 is track-use only (or if you don't have a life and want to bleed your brakes every month). As for OEMs not using synthetic, it's the same as oil - cost. Synthetic oils have been around for ages but OEMs have just recently started using them. Get a good synthetic DOT4, bleed it biennially, and enjoy.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Hmm, if you don't go to the dealer for your oil changes in an ICE they don't void your warranty.
No, but that,s not what they said. If you dont change your oil on your ICE, your warrenty is void. Same with Tesla. If you don't change your brake fluid, and document it, then your warrenty as far as the brakes are concerned is void.
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