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For AWD owners wanting a P3D-

M3PLRD

Member
Jan 17, 2019
25
34
Denmark
We absolutely know there is a difference.

Otherwise there'd be no reason for the 990 to exist.

Therefore the 990 is:

Cheaper and less capable, by simple deduction based on facts and use.


How much? Dunno. But cheaper enough to be worth its existence it seems, and still capable enough to handle this 2k unlock at least.

No, you don't know that, it is speculation. It is possibly correct but there are also other possibilities.
I am not getting into a pointless discussion about it since I don't know whether there is any real world difference and you don't know either, despite that you have convinced yourself that you do.
 

TwoK4drSi

Active Member
Apr 3, 2019
1,270
1,187
DFW
We absolutely know there is a difference.

Otherwise there'd be no reason for the 990 to exist.

We don't know exactly what the difference (or differences) are- but we can conclude a few things by considering 2 ideas-

1) It's cheaper
2) It's less capable.


We know both have to be true because:


If it were NOT cheaper (regardless of being less capable or not) it wouldn't exist. They'd just keep using the 980.

If it IS cheaper, but NOT less capable- they'd use it in everything including the P but they keep using the 980 in the P.


Therefore the 990 is:

Cheaper and less capable, by simple deduction based on facts and use.


How much? Dunno. But cheaper enough to be worth its existence it seems, and still capable enough to handle this 2k unlock at least.
Is there a non painful way of finding this out? If I have to remove a bunch of *sugar* then I’m good but if I can see it by jacking up the car and taking a wheel off then I might go explore
 

TwoK4drSi

Active Member
Apr 3, 2019
1,270
1,187
DFW
No, you don't know that, it is speculation. It is possibly correct but there are also other possibilities.
I am not getting into a pointless discussion about it since I don't know whether there is any real world difference and you don't know either, despite that you have convinced yourself that you do.
No, you don't know that, it is speculation. It is possibly correct but there are also other possibilities.
I am not getting into a pointless discussion about it since I don't know whether there is any real world difference and you don't know either, despite that you have convinced yourself that you do.

Theres only one way to know. Race a 980 versus a 990
 

RangerMac

Member
Nov 11, 2019
236
109
Tacoma
im on the fence but does anyone think elon will change the price randomly or just takeaway this option?
I think it this is not an option for order of a new car we may see this go away after the quarter and be used as an end of quarter occasional boost in revenue generation.
 

shiv.nandak

Closed
Dec 14, 2019
58
77
Pittsburgh, PA
I'm curious, if you are passing on this, then what is your solution? Drive a slower car because you don't feel this is close to performance? What is your upgrade path to getting performance speed? Honest questions, I'm not trying to be snarky.

It's not about a solution. It's about the principle. The price difference between a regular dual motor and the stealth is $2k. You are paying full price for half the upgrade while missing the most important feature. Everyone who is buying this right now is setting a bad precedent regarding future upgrades. Tesla now knows who is willing to fork over their money for mediocre upgrades and if Tesla determines that there are enough people - all future upgrades are going to be this under whelming and overpriced.
 

TwoK4drSi

Active Member
Apr 3, 2019
1,270
1,187
DFW
It's not about a solution. It's about the principle. The price difference between a regular dual motor and the stealth is $2k. You are paying full price for half the upgrade while missing the most important feature. Everyone who is buying this right now is setting a bad precedent regarding future upgrades. Tesla now knows who is willing to fork over their money for mediocre upgrades and if Tesla determines that there are enough people - all future upgrades are going to be this under whelming and overpriced.
Uh...for people that bought before the “stealth” came out...this is a great value. You’ll lose MORE by trying to trade in / taxes. While it’s not the same level as a performance...it’s a solution that everyone that owns a LRAWD wants and have been wanting. Of course if you’re buying new then yes a stealth is the way to go but I love my color combo and stealth does not come with white seats
 

Sherlo

Member
Feb 13, 2019
348
398
SF Bay Area
Uh...for people that bought before the “stealth” came out...this is a great value. You’ll lose MORE by trying to trade in / taxes. While it’s not the same level as a performance...it’s a solution that everyone that owns a LRAWD wants and have been wanting. Of course if you’re buying new then yes a stealth is the way to go but I love my color combo and stealth does not come with white seats

Exactly. If this option had been offered to me last year when ordering AWD, I would have selected it. Just like if I was buying an M3 this year, I would have hoped to get a stealth. It's all perspective.

Oh yeah, forgot about white seats and stealth combo. Now that would be a tough choice, love the white seats. Good thing I don't have to decide
 

TwoK4drSi

Active Member
Apr 3, 2019
1,270
1,187
DFW
Exactly. If this option had been offered to me last year when ordering AWD, I would have selected it. Just like if I was buying an M3 this year, I would have hoped to get a stealth. It's all perspective.

Oh yeah, forgot about white seats and stealth combo. Now that would be a tough choice, love the white seats. Good thing I don't have to decide
And good luck to those trying to find used / junkyard white seats to makeup for it. White>black
 

Krash

Data Technician
Supporting Member
Apr 18, 2017
1,962
2,172
Intermountain US
...There is real, hard cost associated with supporting, maintaining, testing, etc. another version that would not exist if they simply upgraded folks to P software.

Likely there are only two variables: max_torque and max_power. Tesla builds all it's car differentiation around this (with just small hardware differences) so yes, some cost but very small.

I will be interested to see power numbers from someone who can dyno or pull data through the canbus.

Agreed. For anyone doing this please pull torque as well. Bonus points for separate data per motor.

I am very confused after reading all this. What is the difference between a LR AWD with the upgrade -and a stealth? I'm talking physically and with specs? It seems like there are so many variable when going faster and the numbers are all different. Help!!

Power and Torque. Unfortunately we haven't documented how much.

...do they then have different accel curve mapping when a car is in "Sport mode? That seems more complicated software wise and much more testing Tesla would need to do for release and validation...

Almost certainly there is no map. Only torque and power settings to determine a curve. Torque governs the rate of power increase until max power is reached. Then max power governs.

Theres only one way to know. Race a 980 versus a 990

As M3PLRD mentioned, since the torque and power settings are the same, the race results would be identical even with different hardware.
 

Daggad

Member
Dec 19, 2019
11
11
Norway
My guess is that Tesla will add new gradual power boosts later on to those who get this update. Makes no sense they give away everything now. And this will ensure that the feature gets attention longer and get more people to buy it.
 

Daggad

Member
Dec 19, 2019
11
11
Norway
I hope to see some before/after videos soon. Have not found any on YT.
If any of you are about to push the button, please first do a stretch before the update and the same after.
You will get a lot of hits..
 
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justaute

Member
Nov 20, 2018
82
59
Fruit Heights, UT
Not sure why this is difficult.

1. If you want the extra 0.5 seconds AND have an earlier production of LR AWD AND are willing to pay, then buy it.
2. If you do or do not want the extra 0.5 seconds AND have an earlier production of LR AWD and are not willing to pay for it, then do not buy it.
3. If you want P3D- performance, and are facing the options of choosing LR AWD or P3D-, then you should pay the extra $2k. If you have the disposable income and are willing to spend it, then the P3D- option is an easy one.
 

boriszima

Member
Jul 12, 2018
679
335
Los Angeles
How do you check if you have the 980 or 990 motor?

look through wheel/rotor behind rear driver. There is a stamp on the motor which will tell you. There is also a thread that talks about motors which has a summary of what each car has per production and type etc.

im on the fence but does anyone think elon will change the price randomly or just takeaway this option?

I doubt this will be removed. Will it be cheaper or free down the line? Maybe as Tesla has done so for model 3 and giving ludicrous upgrade for free to model s/x owners not too long ago which was $20K package before.
 
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shiv.nandak

Closed
Dec 14, 2019
58
77
Pittsburgh, PA
Uh...for people that bought before the “stealth” came out...this is a great value. You’ll lose MORE by trying to trade in / taxes. While it’s not the same level as a performance...it’s a solution that everyone that owns a LRAWD wants and have been wanting. Of course if you’re buying new then yes a stealth is the way to go but I love my color combo and stealth does not come with white seats

This may be an option for someone who was already hoping for an upgrade. I was one of those people. But let's not forget that no one needs this boost, it is not mandatory. People who do not currently have a stealth/performance have already analyzed their needs and made a decision. There is no need to compare the cost of trading in vs buying this upgrade.

The real question is wether this upgrade is enough to convince the non-performance owners to buy. This is an upfront $2k payment, that is most likely a complete loss when you trade in the car. It doesn't not make your car a stealth car. While there was people who were willing to pay for any performance improvement, It is not a solution that "everyone" wanted. Tesla has fallen short in terms of convincing me to part with my money. I would have bought it if it upgraded my car into a full stealth.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,241
22,094
NC
No, you don't know that, it is speculation.

Not really. I even showed the reasoning.

N
It is possibly correct but there are also other possibilities.

really?

What other possibility is there for them to make a different motor (adding costs in development and testing, costs in manufacturing, costs in supply chain, and more) OTHER the motor is cheaper to make?


And remember your "other possibility" needs to also account for the fact this motor is not used at all in the P. Which it would be if it was BOTH cheaper AND just as capable.


"Cheaper and less capable of max power" is the only explanation for the 990 that fits both requirements.

But by all means let us know if you have another.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
13,241
22,094
NC
People who do not currently have a stealth/performance have already analyzed their needs and made a decision..

But many of them made that analysis/decision when the P3D- was an $11,000 upgrade, not $2000.

Many more made it when the P3D- wasn't even available for purchase anymore (late 2018 and first half of 2019) and upgrading to "a" P was still a TON more money than $2000.
 

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