For AWD owners wanting a P3D-

[Knightshade]

I'm not saying your logic isn't sound, just that there could be "some" better things in he 990 that the older design 980 doesn't have (say reliability), even if the raw power output is less than the 980.

It's certainly possible the 990 is "better" in some ways and worse in others.

But if it were as good or better for handling peak power they'd be putting them in new Ps and they're not doing so despite it being almost a full year since the 990 started showing up in non-P cars.

Then, lest us not forget, the LR AWD has a front DU. It's possible that an upgrade down the road could have the front DU "make up for" the suspected less powerful 990 DU.

I don't know that we have data yet about how much of the current $2000 upgrade was adding power to front vs. rear so it's hard to say how much overhead is left at which end (though we know the front DU is the same part in LR AWD and P)

Edit: This post today on the Tesla forum - In short, a 980 failed DU was replaced with a 990 (in a LR AWD). Could be many reasons for this (failure and swap) including cost or reliability.

" I don't think that best-of-the-lot thing was ever true. I just had my rear drive unit fail, which was the one that was supposed to be lot-sorted with extra burn in time. They replaced it with a standard read drive unit that was not specific to performance cars. I asked them about it and they didn't seem to know what I was talking about. I emailed them about it and haven't received a reply. Pretty sure that wasn't completely true, although I could be wrong."

Any chance you have a link to that post? I don't see PNs listed so it sounds more like he's complaining he didn't get a 980 replacement that the parts guy "knew" was specially tested, rather than getting a 990?

 

[MXWing]

Wasn’t there something about the latest AWDs getting more range than older ones?

A more efficient motor with performance trade offs might be what the 990 is all about.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Wasn’t there something about the latest AWDs getting more range than older ones?

A more efficient motor with performance trade offs might be what the 990 is all about.

Yes, there is, but the EPA datafile shows that the Performance for 2020 (which has been confirmed to still have the 980 unit - though the significance of the "stepping/version" (I don't know what letter or whatever we're up to at this point...) is not clear) is even more efficient than the AWD.
Download Fuel Economy Data

 

[groovidad]

Well it appears that all this talk of "bin numbers" was for naught. Got my invitation by email to increase acceleration to 3.9 for $2K. I assume everyone else did, as well(?)

 

[MXWing]

Yes, there is, but the EPA datafile shows that the Performance for 2020 (which has been confirmed to still have the 980 unit - though the significance of the "stepping/version" (I don't know what letter or whatever we're up to at this point...) is not clear) is even more efficient than the AWD.
Download Fuel Economy Data

I don’t think we can rely on the EPA data in instances where Tesla wants to sandbag the outcome.

Tesla asked the EPA to downrate the 3LR.

AWD looks bad range wise otherwise so it was to Tesla’s benefit to do this.

 

[CXNperformance]

I put my decal before even testing the upgrade lol.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I don’t think we can rely on the EPA data in instances where Tesla wants to sandbag the outcome.

A little confused by what you are saying. You were saying maybe 990 was more efficient. But the results of the test that Tesla conducted in their lab with a vehicle with a 980 motor were better than the results of a test with a 990 motor.

The data in the file has to show the test results. The sticker data is something else of course - and I’m not referring to that at all. Yes, Tesla requested a voluntary reduction for the Performance for 2020, just to avoid confusion/questions I would think.

 

[dennistdk]

I finally got some more specific numbers from the EU registration for the latest performance (2019.36+).
I think it somewhat explains what is going on with the boost update and the difference between 990 and 980, as an AWD with "boost" now fits with the EU registrations for AWD.

The 980 motor max. output in SR+ and RWD is at 225kW. Since this hasn't changed over time (even with the 5% updates) I think it's somewhat safe to assume this is the maximum output of a 980.

For a long time (up to 2019.36) the 980 motor in Performance was at 205kW, but with the latest update it was changed to 219kW (close to the max. of 225kW).

For AWD (with the boost update) the 990 motor now outputs 203kW (almost the same as Performance before 2019.36).

The front seems to be maxed out at 158kW now on both (earlier 150kW and 155kW).

The reason for not having the Performance at 225kW like the RWD might be that there is a limit on how much curent you can pull from the battery. On the other hand it's 6kW that might be available in a later update (the 2019.8 update only gave the Performance 5kW more).

If we can trust the EU registrations (and assume that the AWD corresponds to the output with boost enabled) then it means that on paper the Performance has now 22hp more than the AWD (which probably equals the ~0,2-0,4s difference in 0-60).

 

[MXWing]

Well it appears that all this talk of "bin numbers" was for naught. Got my invitation by email to increase acceleration to 3.9 for $2K. I assume everyone else did, as well(?)

Nah. Us smarter guys knew the binning / sorting / burn in was a crock of *sugar* back in July 2018.

Yes, many reports of AWD owners getting the email.

 

[m3-ricardo]

sure wish that the debate over motor numbers and binning would just go away ..

lets hear more about the real world numbers of this upgrade ..

i'm on the fence about buying -- thinking i'll hold out and see if they make track mode available too .. i'd pay for that $500

 

[jebinc]

It's certainly possible the 990 is "better" in some ways and worse in others.

But if it were as good or better for handling peak power they'd be putting them in new Ps and they're not doing so despite it being almost a full year since the 990 started showing up in non-P cars.




I don't know that we have data yet about how much of the current $2000 upgrade was adding power to front vs. rear so it's hard to say how much overhead is left at which end (though we know the front DU is the same part in LR AWD and P)





Any chance you have a link to that post? I don't see PNs listed so it sounds more like he's complaining he didn't get a 980 replacement that the parts guy "knew" was specially tested, rather than getting a 990?

Here's the short thread.

Performance model “acceleration upgrade” for $2K? | Tesla

Consider the possibility that my working hypothesis is true.... Once Tesla figures out how to tune the 990 and front DU to P levels of power, we could see 990's going into future P trims. Would save Tesla even more money as the 990 is "cheaper" as you suggest.

Edit: Posted incorrect link earlier; now corrected.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

now 22hp more than the AWD (which probably equals the ~0,2-0,4s difference in 0-60).

Remember that the peak HP number is only loosely correlated with the 0-60 number. What matters for the 0-60 is peak/max torque. E.g. The 0-30 times of the AWD and P could be made to match, with huge differences in peak HP.

It’s the area under the HP vs speed curve that matters for time.

The difference between AWD+ and P now appears to be about 15% in terms of max torque.

 

[jebinc]

sure wish that the debate over motor numbers and binning would just go away ..

lets hear more about the real world numbers of this upgrade ..

i'm on the fence about buying -- thinking i'll hold out and see if they make track mode available too .. i'd pay for that $500

Good point. No more 990 posts here from me.

 

[K1Woods]

I put my decal before even testing the upgrade lol.

View attachment 490206

Good one. How about a red plus symbol after Dual Motor? Need something to signify the upgrade. Can you imagine explaining that to a buyer "see the sport toggle setting - that means the car has the acceleration boost option ..."

 

[Urbancowboy]

I finally got some more specific numbers from the EU registration for the latest performance (2019.36+).
I think it somewhat explains what is going on with the boost update and the difference between 990 and 980, as an AWD with "boost" now fits with the EU registrations for AWD.

The 980 motor max. output in SR+ and RWD is at 225kW. Since this hasn't changed over time (even with the 5% updates) I think it's somewhat safe to assume this is the maximum output of a 980.

For a long time (up to 2019.36) the 980 motor in Performance was at 205kW, but with the latest update it was changed to 219kW (close to the max. of 225kW).

For AWD (with the boost update) the 990 motor now outputs 203kW (almost the same as Performance before 2019.36).

The front seems to be maxed out at 158kW now on both (earlier 150kW and 155kW).

The reason for not having the Performance at 225kW like the RWD might be that there is a limit on how much curent you can pull from the battery. On the other hand it's 6kW that might be available in a later update (the 2019.8 update only gave the Performance 5kW more).

If we can trust the EU registrations (and assume that the AWD corresponds to the output with boost enabled) then it means that on paper the Performance has now 22hp more than the AWD (which probably equals the ~0,2-0,4s difference in 0-60).

The P is still around 0.5s faster to 60mph. Would need much more than 22hp to do that. We need data from a boosted car to see what actual output is. I would wager a guess the front motor is still nerfed even after the boost.

 

[Knightshade]

Here's the short thread.

Performance model “acceleration upgrade” for $2K? | Tesla

Thanks for the link- as I suspected no PNs listed at all.... probably he got a 980 but he asked if he got the "special binned" P motor and the Tesla guy just stared blankly having no idea WTF he was asking for. No indication he got a 990 specifically.

Consider the possibility that my working hypothesis is true.... Once Tesla figures out how to tune the 990 and front DU to P levels of power, we could see 990's going into future P trims. Would save Tesla even more money as the 990 is "cheaper" as you suggest.

It would. But doing so would be pretty trivial, and the 990 has been in the wild for almost a year now without that happening, which suggests it physically incapable of P level power (or at least incapable of safe, sustained, P level power).

 

[thebigbobowski]

Good one. How about a red plus symbol after Dual Motor? Need something to signify the upgrade. Can you imagine explaining that to a buyer "see the sport toggle setting - that means the car has the acceleration boost option ..."

I'd vote for the same line underneath Dual Motor but black instead of red. That said, I'm not a fan of the Dual Motor badge in general and haven't put mine on my car.

 

[bluesolarflare]

I'd vote for the same line underneath Dual Motor but black instead of red. That said, I'm not a fan of the Dual Motor badge in general and haven't put mine on my car.

Or just a chrome underline

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Thanks for the link- as I suspected no PNs listed at all.... probably he got a 980 but he asked if he got the "special binned" P motor and the Tesla guy just stared blankly having no idea WTF he was asking for. No indication he got a 990 specifically.

@Knightshade, TBH I was not paying super close attention to what you were asking for...so sorry and disregard if this is useless or not what you were looking for...but here is the only “unusual” situation I am aware of that was actually verified. Certainly it is not a Performance with 990 case - which has never been seen.

SanmanM3 gets a late 2019 AWD which was a downgraded P3D with 980 motor.

 

[jebinc]

Or just a chrome underline

Perhaps a "White metal" line; since we got the "cheapened" version....