For leased TM3P, always charge to full, right?

[jesusbowls]

I've had my car a few weeks, and per the delivery tutorial recommendation, I set my charging ceiling at about 80%. But now I'm thinking, I lease the car, so I don't car about battery degradation, so I should just be charging to 100% each time.

Any downside for me in doing this?

 

[jjrandorin]

I've had my car a few weeks, and per the delivery tutorial recommendation, I set my charging ceiling at about 80%. But now I'm thinking, I lease the car, so I don't car about battery degradation, so I should just be charging to 100% each time.

Any downside for me in doing this?

Yes

First of all, do you actually need "310 miles range" every day? No, you likely dont. Second, you have no regen if charged to 100%, so the car actually drives different and is less responsive. There is absolutely no reason for you TO do it, and the car is less responsive from a braking perspective at max charge, so there is a reason not to do it.

Why do you want to do this, beside the "its a leased car so I dont care about it" reason?

 

[toolman335]

If I leased I'd probably do the same thing. If I drove quite a bit it would greatly reduce range anxiety. I'd also exclusively use Superchargers lol.

The drawback is you're hurting the future owner of the car, and thus maybe not helping further the cause of owning one.

 

[jesusbowls]

Why do you want to do this, beside the "its a leased car so I dont care about it" reason?

Reduction of range anxiety and improved "worst-case scenario" situation. i.e. if something happens where I end up needing to do a long drive with no notice or end up in a situation without access to power, then having started with a fuller charge is preferable.

As far as losing regenerative braking at 100%, at what battery charge percentage is that no longer an issue? I understand your point, but if I lose regenerative braking until, say, 95%, then that's only for ~10 miles, and that doesn't bother me in the least.

 

[jjrandorin]

Reduction of range anxiety and improved "worst-case scenario" situation. i.e. if something happens where I end up needing to do a long drive with no notice or end up in a situation without access to power, then having started with a fuller charge is preferable.

As far as losing regenerative braking at 100%, at what battery charge percentage is that no longer an issue? I understand your point, but if I lose regenerative braking until, say, 95%, then that's only for ~10 miles, and that doesn't bother me in the least.

What "worst case: scenario is there that would benefit from an additional 30 miles of rated range? You have range anxiety. How far do you actually drive to commute each day? I am betting your commute is under 200 miles a day, back and forth to work. Is it?

You will likely have reduced regen until you hit 90% or so, so for those 30 additional miles you are charging for that have absolutely zero benefit to you, unless you are trying to drive 240 miles or more at once, WITHOUT STOPPING. Are you doing that every day?

 

[jjrandorin]

If I leased I'd probably do the same thing. If I drove quite a bit it would greatly reduce range anxiety. I'd also exclusively use Superchargers lol.

The drawback is you're hurting the future owner of the car, and thus maybe not helping further the cause of owning one.

Unless you bought your car during the time that had unlimited free supercharging, charging exclusively on superchargers would both cost you more money, AND cost you time that it doesnt cost to charge at home.

There is nothing better about charging at superchargers than charging at home, with the exception for those people who have free unlimited supercharging. Even for them, they are valuing their time at zero to try to get that "free" electricity. For everyone else, supercharging cost more than most peoples regular electricity rates, so zero benefit for daily use****.

****provided you actually have home charging.

 

[ewoodrick]

I've had my car a few weeks, and per the delivery tutorial recommendation, I set my charging ceiling at about 80%. But now I'm thinking, I lease the car, so I don't car about battery degradation, so I should just be charging to 100% each time.

Any downside for me in doing this?

Absolutely not. Would you go around and bang up the doors because it is leased?

First, the car will complain when you charge to 100% multiple times.
Next, it is just not needed. You are trying to overcome range anxiety and that's not the way to do it.
If you are happy at 80%, leave it there. If you want a little more, head to 90%. There's just no need to go to 100% in most situations.

 

[tomas]

I've had my car a few weeks, and per the delivery tutorial recommendation, I set my charging ceiling at about 80%. But now I'm thinking, I lease the car, so I don't car about battery degradation, so I should just be charging to 100% each time.

Any downside for me in doing this?

If you started post with some story about daily commute that requires 100%, there’s a reason. I hear no reason except screwing lessor and future owners. How hostile!!!

 

[jesusbowls]

What "worst case: scenario is there that would benefit from an additional 30 miles of rated range? You have range anxiety. How far do you actually drive to commute each day? I am betting your commute is under 200 miles a day, back and forth to work. Is it?

That extra 10% is really only 20 miles (not 30), as far as I can tell, based on my driving habits. And as I mentioned, the worst-case scenarios where I'd potentially benefit from extra miles would be an unexpected/spontaneous long drive, or a situation where I'd end up without power due to outages or poor planning.

Also, from a performance standpoint, wouldn't staying in a SOC of between, say 70 and 100% given me better performance than staying in a SOC of between 60% and 90%? Those dyno graphs for various SOCs were pretty enlightening to me. I love the acceleration of this car, and I routinely have the accelerator pinned to the floor during take offs, merging, and passing.

Commute is 2.2 miles (one stop sign, no stop lights) each way. On normal days, my daily driving ranges between 10 miles and 80 miles, with an average (mean) of around 41 miles based on the last 3 years.

You will likely have reduced regen until you hit 90% or so, so for those 30 additional miles you are charging for that have absolutely zero benefit to you, unless you are trying to drive 240 miles or more at once, WITHOUT STOPPING. Are you doing that every day?

I don't see reduced regen as a downside. The car still drives just as fast and handles/steers just as well whether regen is active or not.

 

[jesusbowls]

Absolutely not. Would you go around and bang up the doors because it is leased?

No, because that would be ridiculous. However, I do basically treat it like I treat a rental car.

 

[mtndrew1]

There’s a practical reason to charge no higher than 90% and that’s the loss of regen for the first 30 or so miles of driving. This will result in lower efficiency, greater buildup of brake dust, and a higher electric bill.

Of course charging to 100% every day will also result in faster degradation reducing the total maximum range over the lease period, negating the range flexibility you were looking for in the first place.

 

[jesusbowls]

If you started post with some story about daily commute that requires 100%, there’s a reason. I hear no reason except screwing lessor and future owners. How hostile!!!

There is no moral or ethical responsibility whatsoever to the lessor or future owner of the car, as long as I am operating within the contractual terms of the lease (which I am).

 

[jesusbowls]

There’s a practical reason to charge no higher than 90% and that’s the loss of regen for the first 30 or so miles of driving. This will result in lower efficiency, greater buildup of brake dust, and a higher electric bill.

While I think these are important considerations, they are not considerations for me. I bought this car because it offers the best performance in its price range, and so I don't have to fill up with gas any more. Efficiency, brake dust, and electric costs are non-factors for me.

Of course charging to 100% every day will also result in faster degradation reducing the total maximum range over the lease period, negating the range flexibility you were looking for in the first place.

This is definitely something to consider, so I guess I'd want to find out the delta in degradation over 3 years/45K miles between regularly charting to 80% and regularly charging to 100%. Any data on this yet?

 

[mtndrew1]

While I think these are important considerations, they are not considerations for me. I bought this car because it offers the best performance in its price range, and so I don't have to fill up with gas any more. Efficiency, brake dust, and electric costs are non-factors for me.



This is definitely something to consider, so I guess I'd want to find out the delta in degradation over 3 years/45K miles between regularly charting to 80% and regularly charging to 100%. Any data on this yet?

Well there’s no need to focus on 80%, which you seem sort of fixated on. Charge to 90% daily and you’ll get full performance, regen, no brake dust, normal throttle/brake feel, and a lower electric bill.

There really isn’t a benefit to charging above 90% unless you’re driving 300 miles per day. Naturally it makes sense to charge to 100% for trips.

But you do you. You asked if there’s any reason not to charge to 100% daily, and there are many. The only upside to doing this is having an extra 30 miles in the tank every morning. If you’re not dipping way down in the battery every day it doesn’t have any practical benefit but does have a number of drawbacks. Most automakers just lock out the top 10% of the battery for exactly these reasons.

 

[kingkong5]

I don't know if it happens on the Model 3's but at least on the Model S's it takes forever and a day to eke out that last 10% at a Supercharger. They throttle you way back on the charge rate. Probably not as big a deal if you're charging from home, that seems to be a constantly slow speed, but then as mentioned before, without regen braking when you take it out at 100%, in effect you're spending more on electricity then you need to.

 

[jesusbowls]

I don't know if it happens on the Model 3's but at least on the Model S's it takes forever and a day to eke out that last 10% at a Supercharger. They throttle you way back on the charge rate. Probably not as big a deal if you're charging from home, that seems to be a constantly slow speed, but then as mentioned before, without regen braking when you take it out at 100%, in effect you're spending more on electricity then you need to.

So far I've been doing all charging at a free ChargePoint station at my office, save for one visit to a SuperCharger just to try it out.

 

[jesusbowls]

Well there’s no need to focus on 80%, which you seem sort of fixated on. Charge to 90% daily and you’ll get full performance, regen, no brake dust, normal throttle/brake feel, and a lower electric bill.

Electric bill not an issue so far because I charge at my office (for free to me), but great points on the other items.

But you do you. You asked if there’s any reason not to charge to 100% daily, and there are many. The only upside to doing this is having an extra 30 miles in the tank every morning. If you’re not dipping way down in the battery every day it doesn’t have any practical benefit but does have a number of drawbacks. Most automakers just lock out the top 10% of the battery for exactly these reasons.

Isn't performance a practical benefit of maintaining a higher SOC?

I do very much appreciate the potential downsides of a full charge as pointed out in this thread.

 

[mtndrew1]

Electric bill not an issue so far because I charge at my office (for free to me), but great points on the other items.



Isn't performance a practical benefit of maintaining a higher SOC?

I do very much appreciate the potential downsides of a full charge as pointed out in this thread.

The performance difference between 90 and 100% charge is negligible, maybe 0.1 second difference 0-60. For all practical purposes outside of a racetrack performance doesn’t begin to fall off until something like 65%.

Anyway that’s my personal recommendation and what the manual states and what Tesla recommends and what other automakers say and what battery manufacturers say. But again, do your thing.

 

[woodguyatl]

I've had my car a few weeks, and per the delivery tutorial recommendation, I set my charging ceiling at about 80%. But now I'm thinking, I lease the car, so I don't car about battery degradation, so I should just be charging to 100% each time.

Any downside for me in doing this?

charging to 100% daily may reduce your total battery capacity to below the current 90% level before the end of the lease.

 

[jesusbowls]

The performance difference between 90 and 100% charge is negligible, maybe 0.1 second difference 0-60. For all practical purposes outside of a racetrack performance doesn’t begin to fall off until something like 65%.

Right, but in my case my battery seems to regularly get down into the 40-50% range with just normal driving (particularly on weekends when I'm away from my office charging station), so if I can increase my "floor", then I'm increasing performance. Negligible difference or not, it's still important to me to have maximum performance.

Anyway that’s my personal recommendation and what the manual states and what Tesla recommends and what other automakers say and what battery manufacturers say. But again, do your thing.

Thank you very much for your responses.