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For Model 3 LTE/3g and free SC have to go

That seems like the simplest way to go, although I'd make the radius 50-70 miles. At 100 miles straight-line distance, the next Supercharger might well be beyond the range of the car when fully charged at home. [In my case, it definitely would be, the nearest is 95 road miles away (77 straight-line miles) and the next ones are well beyond range.]

However, there would have to be some sort of mechanism for verifying the home location of the car, which might not be as easy as it seems.

I would agree. Is anybody going to do daily charging at a supercharger 80 miles away?
 
I agree. Any supercharger within 100 miles of your home should be pay per use. Any outside of that radius should be free.

Thats not acceptable for me, the Super Charger I would use the most is 32 miles away from my house... And I would only use it to make a 200-240 round trip that I do once per month. I certainly wouldn't be abusing the system at that point, and the super charger is necessary for me to make that trip. If the car comes with super charging I certainly think that fits as acceptable, long distance travel.

Everyone has their own unique needs obviously, and mine is a special case, but I dont think that radius lock offs are the way to go, especially when returning home from a trip and using one within 100 miles of the home.
 
I'm a relatively new Tesla owner...

The Model 3 will have to support the Supercharger network and I'd bet it's simply an add-on charge of $2500 or similar, like the Model S 60kW. I really don't see Tesla implementing regional supercharger blockades, or start charging per minute, etc. The beauty of the SuperCharger network is you don't have to worry about it. Stopping and sitting and thinking about whether or not you can charge, or how much it's going to cost you to charge would be awful. It seems like it goes against the painlessness of the whole system.

Also, the SuperCharger network is Tesla's competitive advantage over every other car manufacturer. There's no way it will be Model S / X only, as much as S / X owners would love it to be. Tesla isn't going to suddenly handicap their major competitive advantage over everyone else to provide S / X owners with some luxury. Remember, Model 3 is the goal. S / X are merely stepping stones. Tesla didn't build a massive SuperCharger network across the world to cater to 100,000 Model S owners.
 

Red Sage

The Cybernetic Samurai
Jul 6, 2014
3,033
2,198
Los Angeles CA
  • It costs Tesla more than 25000 per year in electricity to support 8 stalls. Such cost cannot be subsidized by M3 under $35k price model.
>>> They are spending the money anyway. Someone might as well pull up and charge.

  • LTE/3G access probably adds up as well, I'd imagine, $30/month is $2880 over the warranty life of the car (assuming 8 years).
>>> And over the course of eight years, they'll sell so many cars because such a service is 'Free' that it won't matter.
 

Vitold

Active Member
Aug 10, 2015
1,688
1,950
NM
>>> They are spending the money anyway. Someone might as well pull up and charge.


>>> And over the course of eight years, they'll sell so many cars because such a service is 'Free' that it won't matter.

Think of Christmas (for example) travel with so many people on the road at the same time, needing to refuel every 3 hours for at least 20 minutes at a time. It all adds up and Tesla will need to install more stalls to accommodate high volume car such as Model 3 (plus, by the time Model 3 comes out there will be close to 150k Teslas on the road).

Given lower margins and necessity to stay within certain price levels it makes business sense for Tesla to decouple features/services that are bundled with MS. I mentioned LTE/3G and free SC, but it may also be warranty beyond industry standard 4yr/50k, ranger service, etc.
 
Think of Christmas (for example) travel with so many people on the road at the same time, needing to refuel every 3 hours for at least 20 minutes at a time. It all adds up and Tesla will need to install more stalls to accommodate high volume car such as Model 3 (plus, by the time Model 3 comes out there will be close to 150k Teslas on the road).

Given lower margins and necessity to stay within certain price levels it makes business sense for Tesla to decouple features/services that are bundled with MS. I mentioned LTE/3G and free SC, but it may also be warranty beyond industry standard 4yr/50k, ranger service, etc.

People fear what they don't know or don't understand. And as far as the 'masses' go, people don't know electric cars. The current warranty for the S only extends beyond the first 4 years if an extended warranty is purchased, and Tesla's not the only car company offering extended warranties. I don't think they'd be doing themselves any favors by getting rid of those extended warranties. In fact, that's what's going to help give people a comfort factor in the purchase of an all electric car from a company few have heard of. Yes, the free loaners and ranger service may remain for S and X owners only (you get what you pay for), but these may become way to costly to extend to the 3.
 

wayner

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
4,058
1,597
Toronto
Will Tesla be providing a different service experience to Model 3 owners vs what they provide for Model S/X owners? I have ownded a Model S for 8 months and my other car is a Lexus and I have taken my car to joint Lexus/Toyota dealers and there definitely is a differentiation of service level there between Lexus and Toyota. I find it hard to believe that Tesla will be providing loaners, coming to your house to pick up your vehicle, etc for Model 3 owners. And that even leads to the question - does it make sense to even sell them at the same stores and service and the same SCs? Anyone have any opinions on this?
 

Johan

Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Feb 9, 2012
7,510
10,025
Drammen, Norway
The premise of this thread is poor.

Of course Tesla will keep free data and "free" i.e. prepaid supercharging for the Model 3. The data will be there, free, as a base option while the prepaid SC will be a paid option - perhaps included in the highly priced models. Free "unlimited" data (of course speed will throttle after exceeding xxx Gb's per month) and prepaid SC are both money making options for Tesla in that they cost fairly little but adds enormous percieved and experienced value to the buyer. They will want a high uptake on SC option since this will allow them to build out the network even faster and with even better coverage, which will again be a driver of sales.
 
Will Tesla be providing a different service experience to Model 3 owners vs what they provide for Model S/X owners? I have ownded a Model S for 8 months and my other car is a Lexus and I have taken my car to joint Lexus/Toyota dealers and there definitely is a differentiation of service level there between Lexus and Toyota. I find it hard to believe that Tesla will be providing loaners, coming to your house to pick up your vehicle, etc for Model 3 owners. And that even leads to the question - does it make sense to even sell them at the same stores and service and the same SCs? Anyone have any opinions on this?

Comparing Lexus and Toyota service isn't quite right. The question is whether Lexus provides the same service for IS owners as it does for the more expensive cars. The Tesla Model 3 will still be a premium car from a premium car manufacturer. Just their low end mass market model.
 

cpa

Active Member
May 17, 2014
3,618
5,307
Central Valley
I would have to believe that a Tesla Service Center will service any Tesla: Roadster, S, X, 3, plus whatever comes down the pike later on. You need to make it easy on the customer, and to have certain models only serviced at location Z, while other models must be serviced 45 miles away at location Q is not only too confusing, but also insulting to the customer. (At least in the old days, any GM dealer could service any GM brand.) Sales will be handled similarly in those states that permit Tesla stores.

There are just not enough service centers around. Many owners today are hundreds of miles from one, and likely will continue to be hundreds of miles away when the Model 3 makes its debut. The costs to staff and maintain a service center will be amortized better the more cars that are in the service center vicinity that will need servicing, whether warranty work or general fee-for-service repairs. Tesla may have technicians that specialize in the Model 3, or the S/X, but the service centers will service all models.

As far as Supercharging is concerned, I believe that Supercharging will be "standard" in a package that includes fancier interiors and other bells and whistles which obviously would drive up this "base" price by many thousands of dollars. It will be an option for a separate fee much like it was with the 60s. Finally, for those who cannot afford or do not want "on-demand" Supercharger access, the Tesla website will have a 10/30/60/90-day access pass that can be purchased via credit card for unlimited use for that selected period. Their software will automatically enable supercharging on the date chosen by the customer. The pricing will be on the high side, but still much cheaper than gasoline. This will enable the family vacation or the occasional trips to visit relatives that are 200-400 miles away.
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,224
7,102
Delaware
The premise of this thread is poor.

Of course Tesla will keep free data and "free" i.e. prepaid supercharging for the Model 3. The data will be there, free, as a base option while the prepaid SC will be a paid option - perhaps included in the highly priced models. Free "unlimited" data (of course speed will throttle after exceeding xxx Gb's per month) and prepaid SC are both money making options for Tesla in that they cost fairly little but adds enormous percieved and experienced value to the buyer. They will want a high uptake on SC option since this will allow them to build out the network even faster and with even better coverage, which will again be a driver of sales.

This.

Tesla has said openly and repeatedly that they consider the Supercharger network a marketing expense, and that it exists to sell cars. If it turns out to be unsustainable at the present buy in for the Model 3 (I don't really think it will be,) Tesla's most likely reaction would be to adjust the gross margin on the car to hold a bigger buy in back - they know the network is a key enabler to convince people to buy, and they know they get more buyers at higher prices because of the network.

(I'm one of the people that wouldn't have ever considered moving from My Volt without the Supercharger net, and while I haven't bought a Tesla yet it's beginning to look fairly likely that I will in due time.)

I think it's possible you'll see the old S60 approach with a hefty customer option to enable - but I think it's equally likely that it'll be included with all cars, or at least all but the most stripped base model.

I suspect 3G/LTE is the same way - there are so many connected bits of functionality that add value to the car, I imagine they'll take that out of gross margin too, because I'm pretty sure it drives more sales at higher prices than they could get without covering the cellular bill.
Walter
 

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