For sale: Whatever you want

[Mrwatchdawg]

This is the most appropriate thread to start this in.

I have been in the market for another Tesla last 2 weeks and read over 50 posts and replies. The one thing I see common is arguing.

-priced too high
-wrong color combo
Blah blah blah

The fact is Tesla is an amazing car but horrible at their pricing structures. My last Tesla I lost 85k in a year. I complained, cried, and even cried some more but truth is Tesla is still learning pricing and the market.

What we paid 6 months ago, may have lost 20% overnight because of new pricing but that doesn’t mean we can justify it in the used market as more.

I am just saying this without starting a huge debate but just like we adopted driving a Tesla we need to adopt how the resell will be. Atleast until it appreciates

Now the most important question, who will sell me a great deal on a model S! Haha

 

[kev1n]

pretty much common sense. if you aint got anything good to say, dont say anything at all. people will realize if something is priced too high when they dont get any hits and they will lower their expectations.

 

[Mrwatchdawg]

Ya just SO annoying when threads are just so negative and south.

Priced high, leave it alone. It's not for you. Talking *sugar* and trying to knock sense into someone isn't gonna reduce their price lll

 

[Ostrichsak]

pretty much common sense. if you aint got anything good to say, dont say anything at all. people will realize if something is priced too high when they dont get any hits and they will lower their expectations.

Ya just SO annoying when threads are just so negative and south.

Priced high, leave it alone. It's not for you. Talking *sugar* and trying to knock sense into someone isn't gonna reduce their price lll

Pretty much sums it up. If the seller left out a key feature or wasn't clear about something feel free to ask publicly as others likely will have the same question eventually. If it's priced too high for the market or for your interests, move along. If it's high but close you can PM an offer to the seller. No other vehicle forum I've ever been a member/staff of has ever allowed this to take place. It's ugly and makes for a hostile environment especially for newer members.

This idea that some feel they're the authority on what their list price should be and therefore are allowed to pass judgement publicly and brutally w/o any sense of decency is driving this community into the ground. Staff refuses to do anything about it and it's hurting the community in a measurable way as people such as yourself see the negativity and find another community that is more friendly.

For every post like yours forum administration should assume 100 others have moved along w/o wasting the time to say anything about it. In this day and age the figure is probably even higher than that on the world wide web. It's just too easy to move to greener pastures so why would anyone stick around on a forum that allows bullying and mob mentality to rule?

 

[iqless]

My last Tesla I lost 85k in a year

Wow. What was that? Something like a P90DL? I still don't get how it can lose $85,000 in a year

 

[JamesBrown]

Ya just SO annoying when threads are just so negative and south.

Priced high, leave it alone. It's not for you. Talking *sugar* and trying to knock sense into someone isn't gonna reduce their price lll

pretty much common sense. if you aint got anything good to say, dont say anything at all. people will realize if something is priced too high when they dont get any hits and they will lower their expectations.

The problem is that these threads continue to perpetuate a broken cycle. If Person A posts their car above market, then Person B sees person As post and uses it as justification for posting theirs above market, then Person C sees Person A & Bs post and thinks oh my car is worth $X....ect, ect, ect.

Letting them post their car at the same price of a new car is all fine and dandy, except for the fact they dont sell at that price. They sit and sit at inflated prices and those become the points of comparison for other sellers. Then you get into a situation were 90% of used cars are within 5% of new car prices and the whole market is artificially inflated.

Just this week I saw a guy on ebay with a 2016 P100DL listed for $130k. A brand new 2019 identical/improved version is $115k. I offered him $84k (10% deprecation/year) and he called me a lowballer. A local dealership has a 2017 100D listed for $88k. I emailed them and showed a screenshot of the Tesla website showing an identical/improved build is $85,815 and offered them $70k (10% deprecation/year). They replied and said "I appreciate your attempt to determine a fair price for our Tesla. As you stated, Tesla changed prices so there is no way to compare our price to a new one. What I can compare our price to is other used vehicles in the market. When it comes that the 2017 100D there are only 3 priced lower than mine in a 500 mile radius of our dealership. Based on the current market, my vehicle is priced competitively."

Exactly there is the problem. They did a search of 2017 100Ds and found several others also priced higher than a brand new 100D, so they feel justified in listing their 2 year old 100D for MORE than a brand new 100D.

So just letting them be and ignoring all the high priced listings is only making the broken situation worse. Only the ads here with used cars priced at/above new cars or blatant fraud go south. If a car is listed within a reasonable price range, it goes well. This forum has a great deal of knowledgeable people and provide a great deal of useful information to prospective buyers. Letting an uninformed buyer overpay should never be acceptable. If a seller want to take advantage of an uninformed buyer, let them do it somewhere else.

 

[JamesBrown]

Pretty much sums it up. If the seller left out a key feature or wasn't clear about something feel free to ask publicly as others likely will have the same question eventually. If it's priced too high for the market or for your interests, move along. If it's high but close you can PM an offer to the seller. No other vehicle forum I've ever been a member/staff of has ever allowed this to take place. It's ugly and makes for a hostile environment especially for newer members.

Wouldnt the price of a brand new & improved version be some key information a seller should include? As stated many times, PMing sellers does nothing to fix the problem of the market place being flooded with over priced cars. No other vehicle forum I've ever been on tolerates sellers asking more for a used car, than a brand new one sells for. Preying upon uninformed buyers is an ugly praticed and Im disgusted that it is tolerated.

This idea that some feel they're the authority on what their list price should be and therefore are allowed to pass judgement publicly and brutally w/o any sense of decency is driving this community into the ground. Staff refuses to do anything about it and it's hurting the community in a measurable way as people such as yourself see the negativity and find another community that is more friendly.

Listing the current price of a new vehicle does not make someone "an authority". Really the seller should have looked themselves prior to posting the ad. Maybe a little common sense bulb would have gone off in their head and realized "Oh, sh*t, my 2017 car is listed for $5k more than a brand new car, I should probably adjust it". Staff members refusing to do anything about this predatory listing behavior is greatly impacting the entire market. This site should be the forefront of information on Tesla's and not allow members to prey upon the uninformed.

For every post like yours forum administration should assume 100 others have moved along w/o wasting the time to say anything about it. In this day and age the figure is probably even higher than that on the world wide web. It's just too easy to move to greener pastures so why would anyone stick around on a forum that allows bullying and mob mentality to rule?

For every post like yours, forum administration should provide temporary bans. Without a proactive approach to this problem, we will never find a solution. This forum has the ability to share it's wealth of information and rectify the problem, but instead it allows people like you to perpetuation the problem.

 

[Ostrichsak]

The problem is that these threads continue to perpetuate a broken cycle. If Person A posts their car above market, then Person B sees person As post and uses it as justification for posting theirs above market, then Person C sees Person A & Bs post and thinks oh my car is worth $X....ect, ect, ect.

Letting them post their car at the same price of a new car is all fine and dandy, except for the fact they dont sell at that price. They sit and sit at inflated prices and those become the points of comparison for other sellers. Then you get into a situation were 90% of used cars are within 5% of new car prices and the whole market is artificially inflated.

Just this week I saw a guy on ebay with a 2016 P100DL listed for $130k. A brand new 2019 identical/improved version is $115k. I offered him $84k (10% deprecation/year) and he called me a lowballer. A local dealership has a 2017 100D listed for $88k. I emailed them and showed a screenshot of the Tesla website showing an identical/improved build is $85,815 and offered them $70k (10% deprecation/year). They replied and said "I appreciate your attempt to determine a fair price for our Tesla. As you stated, Tesla changed prices so there is no way to compare our price to a new one. What I can compare our price to is other used vehicles in the market. When it comes that the 2017 100D there are only 3 priced lower than mine in a 500 mile radius of our dealership. Based on the current market, my vehicle is priced competitively."

Exactly there is the problem. They did a search of 2017 100Ds and several others also priced higher than a brand new 100D, so they feel justified in also asking MORE than a brand new 100D.

So just letting them be and ignoring all the high priced listings is only making the broken situation worse. Only the ads here with used cars priced at/above new cars or blatant fraud go south. If a car is listed within a reasonable price range, it goes well. This forum has a great deal of knowledgeable people and provide a great deal of useful information to prospective buyers. Letting an uninformed buyer overpay should never be acceptable. If a seller want to take advantage of an uninformed buyer, let them do it somewhere else.

No, the "problem" is that you think you're the authority on what constitutes a reasonable listing price.

I saw this occur multiple times over previous months where people kept bringing up the CPO/Used cars from Tesla directly as their "evidence" that the person was asking too much for their used car. They would get downright rude and dirty about it too. It almost never resulted in the seller decreasing their price (the alleged motivation behind these public attacks) but we'll leave that alone for a moment. Then, months later, when the number of used cars Tesla was offering dried up the prices jumped back up and guess what.... these same people aren't going around to the sellers presenting the same cars for $10-$15k more telling them to price their cars higher, are they? Of course not. They're beating up sellers on their cars in hopes that they can get a better "deal" on a car while simultaneously introducing doubt publicly for others who may have interest in the vehicle. Some people try to disguise their greed with virtue but it's pretty obvious.

The point is that the market is volatile and you (or nobody else) is the savior is this fictional idiot buyer who will simply hand over $100,000 US Dollars without an ounce of research. If that person exists, let them. Either way, the way you and others have attacked sellers is completely unwarranted and is NOT helping anyone. In fact, you're running off the very person you claim you're protecting from a community they could use to learn more about these cars and market values.

There's a reason this isn't allowed on other forums and if people can't be polite & courteous here of their own accord then it needs to be enforced via rules. I hate rules but seeing how a few people are behaving behind anonymity when there are non reminds me why it's necessary.

You're going to fire off a retort claiming to look out for the "every man" but if that were the case you can just as easily do so via PM if there indeed your true intentions.

 

[AMPd]

No, the "problem" is that you think you're the authority on what constitutes a reasonable listing price.

I saw this occur multiple times over previous months where people kept bringing up the CPO/Used cars from Tesla directly as their "evidence" that the person was asking too much for their used car. They would get downright rude and dirty about it too. It almost never resulted in the seller decreasing their price (the alleged motivation behind these public attacks) but we'll leave that alone for a moment. Then, months later, when the number of used cars Tesla was offering dried up the prices jumped back up and guess what.... these same people aren't going around to the sellers presenting the same cars for $10-$15k more telling them to price their cars higher, are they? Of course not. They're beating up sellers on their cars in hopes that they can get a better "deal" on a car while simultaneously introducing doubt publicly for others who may have interest in the vehicle. Some people try to disguise their greed with virtue but it's pretty obvious.

The point is that the market is volatile and you (or nobody else) is the savior is this fictional idiot buyer who will simply hand over $100,000 US Dollars without an ounce of research. If that person exists, let them. Either way, the way you and others have attacked sellers is completely unwarranted and is NOT helping anyone. In fact, you're running off the very person you claim you're protecting from a community they could use to learn more about these cars and market values.

There's a reason this isn't allowed on other forums and if people can't be polite & courteous here of their own accord then it needs to be enforced via rules. I hate rules but seeing how a few people are behaving behind anonymity when there are non reminds me why it's necessary.

You're going to fire off a retort claiming to look out for the "every man" but if that were the case you can just as easily do so via PM if there indeed your true intentions.

And you think you’re the authority over what others can and cannot post in for sale threads.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Wouldnt the price of a brand new & improved version be some key information a seller should include? As stated many times, PMing sellers does nothing to fix the problem of the market place being flooded with over priced cars. No other vehicle forum I've ever been on tolerates sellers asking more for a used car, than a brand new one sells for. Preying upon uninformed buyers is an ugly praticed and Im disgusted that it is tolerated.


Listing the current price of a new vehicle does not make someone "an authority". Really the seller should have looked themselves prior to posting the ad. Maybe a little common sense bulb would have gone off in their head and realized "Oh, sh*t, my 2017 car is listed for $5k more than a brand new car, I should probably adjust it". Staff members refusing to do anything about this predatory listing behavior is greatly impacting the entire market. This site should be the forefront of information on Tesla's and not allow members to prey upon the uninformed.


For every post like yours, forum administration should provide temporary bans. Without a proactive approach to this problem, we will never find a solution. This forum has the ability to share it's wealth of information and rectify the problem, but instead it allows people like you to perpetuation the problem.

You keep referring to sellers as evil predators but nobody is forcing the buyer to buy. Maybe a seller asking a higher price has more flexibility for negotiation. Maybe they truly don't care if they sit on it for years and therefore are knowingly asking all of the money for it in case someone comes along that wants EXACTLY that vehicle and it's near them so they're willing to pay a premium. Either way, what business is it of yours? Nobody is making anyone buy anything here so stop trying to make it seem like a seller asking for too much money for their car is somehow a criminal.

A buyer will buy whatever a buyer chooses to buy. A seller lists goods or services for whatever they're willing to accept for it. A buyer will buy said goods or services for whatever they feel they're willing to pay for it. Whatever terms those two parties agree upon is ALL that matters. This transaction doesn't involve you meddling in their business no matter how badly you desire to control everyone else in the transaction.

 

[kev1n]

its a used car market, the value is what someone is willing to pay. if you're not interested in said car, then go find one that you are willing to pay for. (this excludes negotiation of course)

If you're really interested in said car and feel the price is a bit too high than take it to DM's

 

[Ostrichsak]

its a used car market, the value is what someone is willing to pay. if you're not interested in said car, then go find one that you are willing to pay for. (this excludes negotiation of course)

If you're really interested in said car and feel the price is a bit too high than take it to DM's

Yep. Pretty simple solution.

 

[JamesBrown]

No, the "problem" is that you think you're the authority on what constitutes a reasonable listing price.

I saw this occur multiple times over previous months where people kept bringing up the CPO/Used cars from Tesla directly as their "evidence" that the person was asking too much for their used car. They would get downright rude and dirty about it too. It almost never resulted in the seller decreasing their price (the alleged motivation behind these public attacks) but we'll leave that alone for a moment. Then, months later, when the number of used cars Tesla was offering dried up the prices jumped back up and guess what.... these same people aren't going around to the sellers presenting the same cars for $10-$15k more telling them to price their cars higher, are they? Of course not. They're beating up sellers on their cars in hopes that they can get a better "deal" on a car while simultaneously introducing doubt publicly for others who may have interest in the vehicle. Some people try to disguise their greed with virtue but it's pretty obvious.

The point is that the market is volatile and you (or nobody else) is the savior is this fictional idiot buyer who will simply hand over $100,000 US Dollars without an ounce of research. If that person exists, let them. Either way, the way you and others have attacked sellers is completely unwarranted and is NOT helping anyone. In fact, you're running off the very person you claim you're protecting from a community they could use to learn more about these cars and market values.

There's a reason this isn't allowed on other forums and if people can't be polite & courteous here of their own accord then it needs to be enforced via rules. I hate rules but seeing how a few people are behaving behind anonymity when there are non reminds me why it's necessary.

You're going to fire off a retort claiming to look out for the "every man" but if that were the case you can just as easily do so via PM if there indeed your true intentions.

I am only quoted readily accessible information on Tesla.com. That does not make me an authority, it simply means I posses the ability to read. I have never once claimed to be an authority once. All I have ever done was compare a used car price to a new car price.

"If that person exists, let them." - That is exactly the problem. You are 100% fine with letting an uninformed buyer pay more for a used car than a new car. You are part of the problem. Just a FYI

Plus you are not even looking to buy a car, yet you still spend a large amount of your time trolling the For Sale section. It impacts you in no way, yet you constantly feel the need to interject your opinions.

As for you claim I chase new members away and help no one. I have personally had 3 new members reach out to me and provide thanks for helping them avoid being taken advantage of.

 

[JamesBrown]

its a used car market, the value is what someone is willing to pay. if you're not interested in said car, then go find one that you are willing to pay for. (this excludes negotiation of course)

If you're really interested in said car and feel the price is a bit too high than take it to DM's

No one should ever be forced to negotiate the price of a 2 year old car to less than a brand new car.

If sellers feel personally attacked when the price of a brand new car is mentioned, it is a pretty good sign that their is an issue with their price.

 

[JamesBrown]

You keep referring to sellers as evil predators but nobody is forcing the buyer to buy. Maybe a seller asking a higher price has more flexibility for negotiation. Maybe they truly don't care if they sit on it for years and therefore are knowingly asking all of the money for it in case someone comes along that wants EXACTLY that vehicle and it's near them so they're willing to pay a premium. Either way, what business is it of yours? Nobody is making anyone buy anything here so stop trying to make it seem like a seller asking for too much money for their car is somehow a criminal.

A buyer will buy whatever a buyer chooses to buy. A seller lists goods or services for whatever they're willing to accept for it. A buyer will buy said goods or services for whatever they feel they're willing to pay for it. Whatever terms those two parties agree upon is ALL that matters. This transaction doesn't involve you meddling in their business no matter how badly you desire to control everyone else in the transaction.

I literally just explained to you what business it is of mine. You even quoted the post. Did you not bother to read it? I will not continue to explain the same basic concepts to you over and over.

 

[cucubits]

Nothing will make these guys understand.

They just see us bullies on some for-sale threads. What they fail to see is (as clearly explained many times) what the ramifications are if these ads with their nonsense pricing stay up. More and more see them and take them as reference pricing which is completely wrong and just hurts the market, both buyers and sellers. The cycle grows and grows and nothing good comes from it. No need to be any sort of authority to see this. I can't believe they keep going on and on...

Oh and they also fail to see that some of us are indeed actively looking for a car to buy and we're also "playing nice" on proper sale threads.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I am only quoted readily accessible information on Tesla.com. That does not make me an authority, it simply means I posses the ability to read. I have never once claimed to be an authority once. All I have ever done was compare a used car price to a new car price.

"If that person exists, let them." - That is exactly the problem. You are 100% fine with letting an uninformed buyer pay more for a used car than a new car. You are part of the problem. Just a FYI

Plus you are not even looking to buy a car, yet you still spend a large amount of your time trolling the For Sale section. It impacts you in no way, yet you constantly feel the need to interject your opinions.

As for you claim I chase new members away and help no one. I have personally had 3 new members reach out to me and provide thanks for helping them avoid being taken advantage of.

Now you pretend to know better then I do if I'm looking to buy a car or not. You sure are an authority on everything, aren't you? So glad we have you here to make up our minds for us otherwise, what would we ever do! My hero!

 

[JamesBrown]

Now you pretend to know better then I do if I'm looking to buy a car or not. You sure are an authority on everything, aren't you? So glad we have you here to make up our minds for us otherwise, what would we ever do! My hero!

I literally just told you I am not an authority. You have some serious reading comprehension skills in desperate need of attention here. You even quoted me directly saying "I have never once claimed to be an authority"

All I have ever done was apply basic fundamental 2nd grade math and a little common sense. I take the price of a new car and subtract the price of a used car. If that is a negative or very small number, I point it out as not a good deal.

Then I discuss a radical concept called depreciation. This is a foreign concept to this forum, so I will explain it to you. It means as the useful life of an item decreases, the value of the item also decreases. So as a car ages, it should cost less than a brand new item.

Again, you continually post in the For Sale section, yet you are not interested in buying a car. Why do you continually feel the need to interject your unwanted opinions in every thread? It impacts you in no way, yet you continue to troll prospective buyers.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I literally just told you I am not an authority. You have some serious reading comprehension skills in desperate need of attention here. You even quoted me directly saying "I have never once claimed to be an authority"

All I have ever done was apply basic fundamental 2nd grade math and a little common sense. I take the price of a new car and subtract the price of a used car. If that is a negative or very small number, I point it out as not a good deal.

Then I discuss a radical concept called depreciation. This is a foreign concept to this forum, so I will explain it to you. It means as the useful life of an item decreases, the value of the item also decreases. So as a car ages, it should cost less than a brand new item.

Again, you continually post in the For Sale section, yet you are not interested in buying a car. Why do you continually feel the need to interject your unwanted opinions in every thread? It impacts you in no way, yet you continue to troll prospective buyers.

I love how you claim to not be this and that and then in the very same breath you do exactly the thing you claim to not do... as if it somehow makes it any less annoying.

You just said I'm not buying a car... twice. You said that. Not me. You. Across two separate posts. When did I ever say I wasn't in the market to buy a vehicle? Let me help you with that one; I didn't.

This is EXACTLY how you designate yourself as the authority on something as if your opinion of my buying status somehow trumps my own decision making process.

Talking down to people as if they don't understand basic concepts while demonstrating the inability to understand basic concepts is rich with irony.

 

[JamesBrown]

I love how you claim to not be this and that and then in the very same breath you do exactly the thing you claim to not do... as if it somehow makes it any less annoying.

You just said I'm not buying a car... twice. You said that. Not me. You. Across two separate posts. When did I ever say I wasn't in the market to buy a vehicle? Let me help you with that one; I didn't.

This is EXACTLY how you designate yourself as the authority on something as if your opinion of my buying status somehow trumps my own decision making process.

Talking down to people as if they don't understand basic concepts while demonstrating the inability to understand basic concepts is rich with irony.

Yet again. Being able to compare the price of a used car to the price of a new car on Tesla.com does not make me an authority. It simply means I have the ability to read and can perform basic subtraction.

If you are in the market to buy a car, please take your conversations to PM. Your posts are always off topic and continue to derail discussions about the car listed for sale.