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For those that have a P85+. Here are a couple questions.

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by rainman50, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. rainman50

    rainman50 Member

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    I'm just about ready to press the order button for a P85+ but need a little more convincing. I take too long to make decisions in general and the suspension was my last one.

    I had a chance to drive a P85+ but only on mostly smooth roads (was about 74 degrees outside) . It felt quite good and the pickup and handling is well known. I also had a quick drive in another P85+ but it had 21 inch snow tires and it was about 36 degrees outside. The noise was OK but the ride was a little on the rougher side maybe due to being cold and on snow tires, I don't know. So I'm concerned about the ride quality on roads that might be on the rougher side (not potholes). I still want to get another test drive before I accept.

    How is the ride quality and noise levels in general on different types of roads? I have read a lot of posts but they were a mix of models with different tires/wheels not just the P85+. Also it is nice to get opinions of ones who have had the car a while and driven in different conditions.

    Just a little background. I have a 2000 BMW 540iA and a 2003 SLK32 AMG. I was thinking of the Tesla to be more of a cruiser (decent ride quality) but if it ends up being about the same as my current cars that would be OK.
     
  2. zwede

    zwede 2013 P85+

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    I consider the ride of my P85+ to be very comfy. A friend has a 2010 Caddy CTS and the P85+ rides at least as smooth as the Caddy. While the ride is smooth it has a nicely connected feel to the road. Similar to an E46 BMW M3 I used to have, though the M3 was obviously nimbler.
     
  3. PaulusdB

    PaulusdB Mayor Gnomus Vintage Limb

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    My Model S P+ was bought in addition to my true sportscar Porsche 911 Carrera 4 and my true cruiser Mercedes Benz 560SL
    As I see it today, the Tesla MSP+ is neither a sportscar nor a cruiser.
    No sportscar, due to:
    - lack of stamina; cooling can't keep up
    - lack of top speed
    - slow response of air suspension, compared to springs
    - unstable at (autobahn type of) speed
    No cruiser either:
    - lack of comfort; 21" wheels will do that for you
    - lack of range

    On the up-side: the MSP+ is my perfect daily driver for commutes up to 200 km one-way.
    Some of the changes made, to get the best of both worlds:
    + 20" wheels in lieu of 21" to get a more comfortable ride.
    + 285 wide rear tyres to gain stability at speed
    + winter wheels 19" with 245/45-19 Nokian tyres for safety in the cold season

    Noise was surprisingly low with the winter wheels. The summer wheels have Pirelli PZero tyres. They are noisy. More noisy than the winter tyres.

    In hindsight a non-plus P85 would have met my needs. Ditch the all season tyres, replace with true winter tyres on the original 19" rims. Buy a set of 20" rims with extra wide rear UHP tyres for summer.
     
  4. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    I believe Tesla has migrated all the P+ bushing combinations into all production MS' thus noise intrusion from the suspension will be the same.
    If your non-+ option will have the exact same tires, then tire noise will be the same.
    The + package has stiffer front dampers. This improves turn in feel. If you come from a 540 sport (as I did) you will appreciate this.
    The + package comes with stiffer front and rear sway bars. This improves turn in feel at the expense of head snatch (that yank side to side as you go over road imperfections one front wheel at a time). I did not feel the P85 suffered from body roll thus would prefer the P bars over the + bars.

    I've stated elsewhere that I feel the very best value would be achieved by ordering the P85 with coils and standard wheels. Change the standard wheels for rims of your choice (light weight but still meeting the load requirements) and Mich Pilot Super Sport tires. If you are so inclined, have the ride height set to your desired level (requires machining more c-clip grooves in the shock body for changing lower spring perch location - easy to do but obviously voids the Tesla damper warranty). This will give you a superior feel without the added front damper valving and head snatch associated with the fatter bars. Again, only my opinion.
     
  5. Shumdit

    Shumdit Member

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    I have the +. I really like it over the standard P85 I drove before I purchased. I feel the ride quality is excellent considering the handling improvement. I don't race it, but I love a good cloverleaf offramp!
     
  6. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    This is the first I've heard of this. Can you elaborate? Any resident suspension expert (lolachampcar?) care to comment?
     
  7. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Just curious -- are you saying the P85+ had 21" rims with snow tires? I'm not sure such a configuration is possible. Who makes snow tires that fit the 21" rims?
     
  8. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

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    lolachampcar has mentioned the crispness of the suspension with standard versus air. If I recall correctly, the guess was because the air suspension allows softer springs then the ride will be softer with air but the handling crisper with standard, for the same ride height.

    Handles great for me either way, but I'm comparing to more commonplace cars than the ones mentioned so far.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I've noted Pirelli snow tires this year for the 21" rims. A very recent thing.
     
  9. Kraken

    Kraken Member

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    It feels better in turns, but you feel and hear the road slightly more. Both are noticeable, more the prior the the latter... That being said, like every other consumer product, you really don't compare them once you get home you just love the one you have. The only time you will notice is when you have a loaner of the other type.
     
  10. rainman50

    rainman50 Member

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    quote: "Just curious -- are you saying the P85+ had 21" rims with snow tires? I'm not sure such a configuration is possible. Who makes snow tires that fit the 21" rims?"


    I did not notice the make of the 21 inch snow tires. I should have looked. They might have been the Pirelli tires that Jason S mentioned.
     
  11. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    My thought is that even if 21" snow tires are available, you'll want 19" snows because: A) You don't want to mess up your 21" wheels, and B) 19" tires will work better in the snow because the higher sidewalls allow the tread to conform to irregular road surfaces better which will provide more traction. Also in the case of the P85+, the wider rear tires detract from snow performance. In snow you want the contact patch to be as long and as narrow as possible.
     
  12. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    I've not delved into the exact reasons for it but coil springs require a certain amount of spring rate and initial ride height so that, when fully loaded, the car does not go below the minimum static ride height. This is accomplished by having the unloaded height a little higher than Standard air height and having a higher spring rate. With air springs, the spring rate is determined by internal geometry and the ride height by how much air is in the spring. If you load the car up, the pump adds more air to maintain the desired ride height. This allows you to run a softer spring and still control the car's height.

    The above leads me to think the coils not only provide the immediate mechanical connection you feel to the road but also the increased chassis support provided by the higher spring rate. The best of both worlds for me was the higher damping rate of the air (in my case, P+) dampers combined with the higher spring rate of the 85 coils.
     
  13. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Oh yeah, I *totally* agree with 100% of this, which is why I asked. I was wondering who (and why) would anyone put snow tires on 21" rims? Seems really crazy to me for all the reasons you stated. So I was wondering if perhaps the OP misread what tires+wheels were actually on the car.
     
  14. rainman50

    rainman50 Member

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    I did check at the time and he did have 21' snows but I would never use 21 inch snows. He offered for me to drive his car to get a feel of the P85+. It was relatively quiet but had a firmer feel than what I would like to have. Hopefully the firmer feel was the cold temperature along with the 21 inch snow tires.

    Later I drove one in Chicago when it was around 72 degrees and it felt and sounded good but I did not have the opportunity to drive it on more of a rougher road, hence the question asked here.
     

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