Ford Focus EV

[Doug_G]

So I started calling the NH dealers on the list but not one of them had a car. None of them had ever had a FFE on their lot, so it's not like they were sold out. Many of the dealers who, according to Ford's web site, were selling the car, were quite negative about it. The comments ranged from very polite to "We'll never get one of those in here if we have any choice about it. Only if Ford forces us to take it." A couple of dealers said they would special order one but they couldn't guarantee it would be there before the lease deal expired, and they would require a non-refundable deposit. Some of them referred me to dealers in MA that had inventory (2.5 hrs away). Ford and their dealers were such a PITA to deal with that I have finally given up.

Not a big surprise. In my experience most car dealers are actively hostile to EVs. They see them as a threat to their service profits.

No surprise then that EV sales are weak for most manufacturers, when your own dealers are actively working against you. They'd be better off launching new car brand with its own dealers.

 

[ChadS]

We're getting a little off the Ford topic here; but this has always been the problem with EVs. Manufacturers can make great cars; they have extremely high conquest numbers and owner satisfaction ratings are through the roof. But the dealers can sell a gas car with less investment, and make more money from service to boot, so they hate EVs. That's why the manufacturers don't want to make them - their sales channel (given the dealer protection laws, their ONLY sales channel for major automakers) doesn't want them.

The first car to nationwide market, Tesla, was a new manufacturer so they sell direct rather than using dealers. The second car, Nissan, did direct sales just using dealers as a delivery point for a while; when they switched to dealer sales, their numbers dropped significantly (although there were complicating factors). The third car, GM, still had a gas engine so the OEM thought there would be no need to explain how to take long trips and the dealers would be happy with the service requirements. Unfortunately they underestimated how much FUD there would be about plug-ins, and many consumers still don't think a Volt can take a long trip. Most of the cars since are meant to sell in very small numbers, and the automakers will use those small sales figures to argue that nobody wants the cars and so the regulations that require they be sold be removed. Excuse me, I mean the automakers have ALREADY made that request (there's a thread about it somewhere).

Getting back to Ford, a friend of mine recently wanted to buy a C-Max Energi plug-in. The dealer had one, at a mark-up, and was obviously not interested in selling it. However, they had over a dozen C-Max hybrids, in various colors and with various packages, and they were happy to make deals on those. My friend ended up with a hybrid. They didn't even have a Focus EV on the lot. Few people I talk to even know that Ford sells an EV! They say they don't market it because they don't want to waste marketing dollars on a low-volume vehicle...but how will it ever become high-volume if nobody knows it's there?

 

[rolosrevenge]

I guess the situation will stay this way until Tesla releases Gen III, everyone starts grabbing it up, and the major OEMs find themselves left behind. Their loss, great for Tesla market share though.

 

[DuncanWatson]

My co-worker and I were talking about my EV and our hopes for the future. We agreed that Tesla will end up forcing the market to follow them. Ford in particular will be a follower. They obviously have put some resources into EV and plug-in hybrids unlike other manufacturers I could name. Ford does have a few models but obviously seems to prefer the plug-in hybrid at the moment. At this point with my 3 year lease I am focused on the potential market in 2016 which hopefully includes a genIII.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I guess the situation will stay this way until Tesla releases Gen III, everyone starts grabbing it up, and the major OEMs find themselves left behind. Their loss, great for Tesla market share though.

Well, Nissan isn't doing so bad. They have dealers pumping out 100 a month right now. Nissan has installed a few dozen DC charging stations, and hopes to put in 500 across the USA.

I don't think a Tesla Gen III will be a complete runaway, but if they have THE magic product of range, price, performance, panache, etc to compete, I'm sure they'll do quite well. Plus we have to wait four years for the Gen III. Nissan is likely to have a whole new platform by then to compete.

Assuming BMW sticks it out, their i3 car will be a good contender at the price point that I expect the Gen III to really be (way more than $30k). In four years, the i3 will be ready for a refresh to also compete against Gen III.

I don't see any other serious contenders on the horizon, except possibly Infiniti.

- - - Updated - - -

Most of the cars since are meant to sell in very small numbers, and the automakers will use those small sales figures to argue that nobody wants the cars and so the regulations that require they be sold be removed. Excuse me, I mean the automakers have ALREADY made that request (there's a thread about it somewhere).

Amazing, isn't it? History definitely repeats, circa 2003.

 

[fengshui]

Getting back to Ford, a friend of mine recently wanted to buy a C-Max Energi plug-in. The dealer had one, at a mark-up, and was obviously not interested in selling it. However, they had over a dozen C-Max hybrids, in various colors and with various packages, and they were happy to make deals on those. My friend ended up with a hybrid. They didn't even have a Focus EV on the lot. Few people I talk to even know that Ford sells an EV! They say they don't market it because they don't want to waste marketing dollars on a low-volume vehicle...but how will it ever become high-volume if nobody knows it's there?

Yeah, as someone considering an EV purchase before my model X primary car is ready, it will be very interesting to see how all of the dealers I talk to support the EV cars their ostensibly selling. (Ford, Chevy, Honda, I'm looking at you...)

 

[joshuaeven]

Just do what many of us have done... Get a LEAF to tide you over. Now we are really off topic

 

[hcsharp]

Just do what many of us have done... Get a LEAF to tide you over. Now we are really off topic

The Leaf is a nice car but doesn't have the range for my wife's round-trip commute in the winter time. The FFE is a little better when the mercury drops below 0 F or -20C.

 

[vfx]

Well Ford got the biggest fed loan at 8 BILLION DOLLARS so I'm so excited to hear how they are doing so well with the EV sales.

... I mean the automakers have ALREADY made that request (there's a thread about it somewhere).
...

I saw a movie about that.

 

[ggies07]

I'm going to go test drive the EV tomorrow some time. I like to test drive each EV to see how they stack up to each other. They said they had one on the lot, we'll see..... I'm also interested in hearing what they're feelings are about them. I'm located in the Dallas/Ft. Worth Texas metroplex. I think with what's happening in NC right now, it would be a great idea to create a list of cities and the specific dealership that talked bad about EVs and spread the list around the internet. That way there is documentation of how dealerships treat EV customers and can be used against them. Or is there already a list like this?

 

[EVNow]

Not a big surprise. In my experience most car dealers are actively hostile to EVs. They see them as a threat to their service profits.

Depends on the manufacturer. If the manufacturer is somewhat ambivalent about the EV (like Ford) then the dealer makes his own narrative. I doubt we hear anything bad about Leaf from Nissan dealers now-a-days. My nearest Nissan dealer essentially survives on Leaf - they sold 3x the number of Leafs as Altimas.

 

[ggies07]

I doubt we hear anything bad about Leaf from Nissan dealers now-a-days. My nearest Nissan dealer essentially survives on Leaf - they sold 3x the number of Leafs as Altimas.

Hahaha. That's awesome!

 

[Jason S]

Depends on the manufacturer. If the manufacturer is somewhat ambivalent about the EV (like Ford) then the dealer makes his own narrative. I doubt we hear anything bad about Leaf from Nissan dealers now-a-days. My nearest Nissan dealer essentially survives on Leaf - they sold 3x the number of Leafs as Altimas.

A friend of my mother's bought a Leaf recently as well. I can attribute that directly as a 'halo' effect from our Model S.

I think this is great stuff.

 

[Doug_G]

Depends on the manufacturer. If the manufacturer is somewhat ambivalent about the EV (like Ford) then the dealer makes his own narrative. I doubt we hear anything bad about Leaf from Nissan dealers now-a-days.

Unfortunately that is not always the case. From what I've heard, the management at the local Leaf dealer isn't very friendly to it. There are a couple of salespeople trained on it and they're very keen, but they don't get a lot of support. And if a customer shows up when one of them isn't present the other salesmen try hard to divert them to an ICE car.

 

[EVNow]

Unfortunately that is not always the case. From what I've heard, the management at the local Leaf dealer isn't very friendly to it. There are a couple of salespeople trained on it and they're very keen, but they don't get a lot of support. And if a customer shows up when one of them isn't present the other salesmen try hard to divert them to an ICE car.

Yes, not sure why Leaf does so bad in Canada. If priced similarly, there is no reason Leaf should sell less in Vancouver compared to Seattle, for eg. I'm also sure in some parts of the south, Nissan dealers aren't all that interested in pushing Leaf.

But I should say compared to 2 years back there is a sea change in the dealers I've talked to.

Getting back to FFE (and other low volume EVs), the main thing that keeps their numbers low is the manufacturer's non-commitment that translates to dealer indifference at best, being hostile to EVs at worst.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Depends on the manufacturer. If the manufacturer is somewhat ambivalent about the EV (like Ford) then the dealer makes his own narrative. I doubt we hear anything bad about Leaf from Nissan dealers now-a-days. My nearest Nissan dealer essentially survives on Leaf - they sold 3x the number of Leafs as Altimas.

Company's like Ford are ambivalent because they wouldn't produce ANY electric vehicles if they didn't have to. Ford didn't even design the Focus EV; it was done by Magna in Canada and "sold" to Ford as better than just paying for CARB-ZEV credits in California.

There are six "Very Large Manufacturers" (VLM) that must produce Zero Emission Vehicles (ZEV) if they want to sell oil burning cars in California, model years 2012-2014:

USA Big Three VLM's:

GM - about 2500 Spark EV 's
Ford - maybe 1500-2000 Ford Focus EV 's
Chrysler/Fiat - probably about 1000 Fiat 500e

Japan Big Three VLM's:

Toyota - 2600 Rav4 EV 's announced by Toyota
Nissan - zillions of LEAF's COMPLIANCE-PLUS(TM), making money selling credits like Tesla!!!
Honda - 1100 Fit EV 's announced by Honda


It is my current guess that Toyota won't even offer an electric vehicle for the 2015-2017 CARB phase IV. It will be hydrogen, and like the Rav4 EV, will only be sold in California.

 

[DuncanWatson]

I don't doubt that the Ford Focus Electric is a CARB compliance vehicle. But you have to give Ford credit for selling it in so many states. Dealers suck and so there are some dealers who make it hard to buy or lease the vehicle. But I love my FFE and it has been treating me very well.

In EV terms Ford is far ahead of Toyota. To be honest it is ahead of GM, Chrysler, Toyota and Honda in terms of EV commitment and only behind Nissan. It is way behind Nissan but such is life.

When my lease is up I will likely end up in a different manufacturer's EV. Not because I don't love the FFE but because in 2016 I suspect Tesla or Nissan to have an EV that I can use as my main vehicle.

 

[hcsharp]

In EV terms Ford is far ahead of Toyota. To be honest it is ahead of GM, Chrysler, Toyota and Honda in terms of EV commitment and only behind Nissan. It is way behind Nissan but such is life...

I'm not convinced Ford is all that far behind Nissan, if any. Nissan has only put minimal investment into EV R & D since they came out with the Leaf. FFE has a lower cd (less wind resistance), and liquid thermal management of the battery, which takes a lot of money to develop. I wouldn't buy a Leaf because they are terrible in extreme cold. The FFE is much better in my climate. It's not nearly as advanced as Tesla's thermal management, but it's a generation better than Nissan.

 

[DuncanWatson]

The liquid thermal management of the pack is a big improvement over the Leaf and Nissan would be foolish not to be thinking about it after what has happened in the US SW. The L3 charging on the Leaf is also an improvment over the FFE. I live in nearly the perfect climate for the Leaf and that may be coloring my view that Nissan is ahead.

I wouldn't get a different EV right now, I love my FFE and there are many little things I think are better than the Leaf. I miss L3 charging since that would put Portland and Vancouver in driving range for me. Overall I think Nissan has the best chance of putting out a car that can challenge a Tesla GenIII. I don't think Ford is putting any more money into the FFE.

 

[timf]

I had the chance to test drive a Focus Electric today. It was a nice car and all, obviously not the same as the Model S P85 I've driven but still drove really well in all real world conditions. The thing that made it hardest for me to like it is at it's core it's still a $20,000 car. The trim and switchgear all felt cheap and was a huge step down from the $40,000 cars I'm used to driving. It's frustrating to have such a wide gap in the electric car market between the budget-based cars like the Focus Electric and Leaf and ultra premium cars like the Model S. The market is starved for something mid-range like the Gen III ultimately will be. The wait is going to be unbearable!