Ford Focus EV

[gg_got_a_tesla]

My wife and I are looking forward to the Model 3 as well but, realistically speaking, it's 3-4 years away. Given that, if we wanted a second 5-seater EV that's not as big and as expensive as the Model S, then the likes of the Ford Focus EV, the LEAF, the Kia Soul EV, the VW e-Golf and the B-class ED are the only options.

And, in my opinion, buying any of these limited range non-Tesla EVs is not a great idea given what their degraded range and resale value may end up being in a few years. That is why we are going to be leasing the e-Golf for the next 3 years to hold us over till the Model 3.

 

[timf]

Now the question is: will a lower price, on its own, attract significant sales? As mentioned in the other thread, Ford does zero marketing for the Focus Electric. I didn't know the thing existed until a few months prior to leasing It, but had known about LEAF, a Volt, etc. for years. Also, with the Model 3 not too far in the distant future, will some potential EV buyers hold off on all other options, Ford included?

I don't think it's the lack of marketing so much as the lack of supply. Most dealers simply don't stock them, so the only way to get one is to have them order from the factory and wait 2-3 months (or more during periods between model years like we are now). Of course, the dealer would much rather push one of the many gas Focuses already sitting on their lot. Unless Ford decides to boost inventory levels, no amount of price cuts will help sell more.

 

[hcsharp]

I don't think it's the lack of marketing so much as the lack of supply. Most dealers simply don't stock them, so the only way to get one is to have them order from the factory and wait 2-3 months (or more during periods between model years like we are now). Of course, the dealer would much rather push one of the many gas Focuses already sitting on their lot. Unless Ford decides to boost inventory levels, no amount of price cuts will help sell more.

That's a big part of their lack of sales in addition to lack of advertising. We've got a dealer here in VT that is actively trying to sell them (Twin State Ford in St. J). I think they're an anomaly. The funny thing is their serial hybrids are selling like hot cakes! The above mentioned Ford dealer can't get enough C-Max and Energi. They go about 10 or 20 miles on electric before the gas kicks in. I think Ford makes the Focus Electric just so they have a bit of a head start just in case the world decides to go electric tomorrow. They can very quickly scale up their current efforts if necessary to compete with other EVs but they couldn't do that without the head start the FFE is giving them.

 

[ElSupreme]

That's a big part of their lack of sales in addition to lack of advertising. We've got a dealer here in VT that is actively trying to sell them (Twin State Ford in St. J). I think they're an anomaly. The funny thing is their serial hybrids are selling like hot cakes! The above mentioned Ford dealer can't get enough C-Max and Energi. They go about 10 or 20 miles on electric before the gas kicks in. I think Ford makes the Focus Electric just so they have a bit of a head start just in case the world decides to go electric tomorrow. They can very quickly scale up their current efforts if necessary to compete with other EVs but they couldn't do that without the head start the FFE is giving them.

I two think Ford is purposefully letting these things be limited volume. So any battery/EV components that need warranty or recall don't make big headlines, or a big dent in their bottom line.

Once they create a Gen 2 vehicle I think Ford is going to push them big time.

 

[GSP]

I two think Ford is purposefully letting these things be limited volume. So any battery/EV components that need warranty or recall don't make big headlines, or a big dent in their bottom line.

Once they create a Gen 2 vehicle I think Ford is going to push them big time.

Exactly. Ford is most likely loosing money on each focus the build. Keeping production down minimizes thier losses.

However they are building enough to learn how to make the next generation EV much more competitive than if they did not design, build and sell the FFE.

GSP

 

[TEG]

Obviously they dialed it down so it wouldn't show up their performance cars.
Kinda like how IBM dialed the PC back to 4.77 MHz so it wouldn't compete with their minicomputers. Of course they published schematics, and when someone did an analysis and realized it was designed for 8 MHz, the TURBO XT was born. Replace one part, computer almost twice as fast.

That isn't quite the way I remember it. I think the original PC had a 5MHz capable CPU, and they slightly under-clocked it for peculiar reasons mentioned here:
The original IBM PC had a clock speed of 4.77 MHz. The 8088 processor inside wa... | Hacker News
DosMan Drivel: IBM PC Design Antics

Then when they later got 8Mhz capable CPUs, they added a turbo switch to step up from 4.77 to 8 MHz only when wanted because you wanted to keep the original speed for some older software written only to run properly at the slower speed. (Some programmers hadn't worked out how to use a real time clock to time things, and they made software keep time by instruction time loops, and the result was some programs like games would run too fast to be playable at 8 Mhz. )

- - - Updated - - -

imho, Ford limits the torque to boost EPA range figures. The MY13+ LEAFs have the same motor as the earlier editions, but less torque from zero to around thirty. 187 ft-lb instead of 207. This appears to be one of the factors helping the MY13+ LEAF go 15% farther (84 miles versus 73 miles) according to the EPA.
(mod note - replies were moved to the Nissan Leaf thread)

I heard that the motors were actually different. What I heard was that they reduced the amount of rare-earth-metal in their magnets in the permanent magnet motors as part of a thorough cost reduction program on all the drivetrain components.
Some description of changes here:
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/e_powertrain.html

The motor in the Nissan e-Powertrain curbs the amount of rare earth material (dysprosium) used as much as possible

http://saegtl.org/ev/data/uploads/ev-content/gtlev_tp_2014-01-1879.pdf

This new magnet not only improves the motor torque performance but also significantly reduces the Heavy rare earth (Dysprosium) usage in theelectric motor by 40% or more.

 

[DuncanWatson]

My wife and I are looking forward to the Model 3 as well but, realistically speaking, it's 3-4 years away. Given that, if we wanted a second 5-seater EV that's not as big and as expensive as the Model S, then the likes of the Ford Focus EV, the LEAF, the Kia Soul EV, the VW e-Golf and the B-class ED are the only options.

And, in my opinion, buying any of these limited range non-Tesla EVs is not a great idea given what their degraded range and resale value may end up being in a few years. That is why we are going to be leasing the e-Golf for the next 3 years to hold us over till the Model 3.

I am leasing a Ford Focus EV for these reasons. I don't want to be saddled with a ~80 mile range vehicle without decent quick charging after the market has switched to >200 mile range EVs as a benchmark.

The Focus EV is a good car, with a reasonable lease price (199/month) and temperature controlled battery system unlike the Leaf's air-cooled system. It is a fine commuter car and available in 50 states.

 

[rabar10]

As for the FFE, make sure to fold up the seat bottoms, then fold down the seats in the FFE. Also take out the rear 'organizer'. There is actually quite a lot of room in the car, although the hump is pretty crappy for moving big items, it can hold LOTS of small items.

Fold up the seat bottoms? Care to elaborate?

Completely agree w/r/t the rear organizer though. That hunk of styrofoam is sitting up on a high shelf in my garage, only to return to the car when the lease is up.

 

[ElSupreme]

Fold up the seat bottoms? Care to elaborate?

I don't have the FFE with me at the moment, so I can't take pictures. But on the front bottom edge of the rear seat bottoms you can see some black hinges. If you grab under the back edge of the seat bottoms and yank up (it takes a bit of force) the bottoms fold forward and up against the front seats. Then when the seat backs fold down they go dead horizontal. It adds a good amount of room for bulky items/dogs in the back area. Or anything that needs to be laid flat.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

c|net on cars...

 

[FlasherZ]

Ford said today that it is planning to cut a shift at its Michigan Assembly Plant where it makes the Ford Focus compact car and C-Max crossover because of declining sales of small cars, hybrids and electric vehicles.

Ford to lay off 700 workers at Michigan Assembly due to slow car sales

 

[hcsharp]

Ford said today that it is planning to cut a shift at its Michigan Assembly Plant where it makes the Ford Focus compact car and C-Max crossover because of declining sales of small cars, hybrids and electric vehicles.

Ford to lay off 700 workers at Michigan Assembly due to slow car sales

Gas is cheap. Ford doesn't innovate much when it comes to plug-in cars so I can see why sales might drop. The 2015 Focus Electric is a decent car but it hasn't changed since the first version of it (2012 model). It's still only rated for 81 EPA miles. Their other plug-ins only go about 10 or 20 miles before the engine kicks on. 700 workers is a lot. That's too bad.

 

[cwerdna]

Gas is cheap. Ford doesn't innovate much when it comes to plug-in cars so I can see why sales might drop. The 2015 Focus Electric is a decent car but it hasn't changed since the first version of it (2012 model). It's still only rated for 81 EPA miles. Their other plug-ins only go about 10 or 20 miles before the engine kicks on. 700 workers is a lot. That's too bad.

Although the Focus Electric receives puny sales, the C-Max Energi and Fusion Energi receive respectable sales vs. other PHEVs.

For 2014 in the US, Fusion Energi + C-Max Energi combined exceed Volt sales. For March 2015, Fusion Energi and C-Max Energi each individually passed the Volt in sales.

See March 2015 Dashboard - HybridCars.com and December 2014 Dashboard - HybridCars.com.

 

[sublimaze1]

Gas is cheap ....

I saw one of these today (a co-worker purchased one) and it is not too bad. In fact, I think it hits the market right were Elon wants the Model "3"

As for the "gas is cheap" comment, I spend less and less energy on researching political issues, but it seems to creep into my brain all by itself.

The current state of the decrease in cost of petrol is a direct attempt (IMHO) of the oil producing countries to put fracking and shale extracting out of business. And they will. It will only be a matter of a few more quarters before investors pull out and the groups go bankrupt. Then we will see gas go up again ... the side effect being that there is less demand for the middle class to purchase this type of vehicle. So Ford is getting pinched now.

Again, that is too bad. It is truly sad.

 

[wraithnot]

Looks like the new version of the Ford Focus electric (2017 model year) will have 100 miles of range and DC fast charging (CCS):

Updated 2017 Ford Focus Electric: 100-Mile Range, DC Fast Charging

 

[gregincal]

Looks like the new version of the Ford Focus electric (2017 model year) will have 100 miles of range and DC fast charging (CCS):

Updated 2017 Ford Focus Electric: 100-Mile Range, DC Fast Charging

Proof that even compliance cars need to improve to sell enough to get the needed credits.

 

[hcsharp]

Proof that even compliance cars need to improve to sell enough to get the needed credits.

It's different from most compliance cars in one respect. They sell it in all 50 states (or close to it) and Canada. They don't get any compliance credit that I'm aware of outside of CA. Nobody else is selling their compliance cars outside of CA (unless they make money like the Leaf but it's not really a compliance car). That brings into question whether it's really just a compliance car, or does Ford have other motivations. They make money on their plug-in hybrids.

 

[stopcrazypp]

They don't get any compliance credit that I'm aware of outside of CA.

This is incorrect. There is something called the travel provision that allows them to get a credit in 13 states that follow CARB rules.
https://www.edf.org/news/13-states-...would-reap-significant-economic-and-environme

When you see limited launched in those select states the reason is because the credits still count. GM is doing that with the 2016 Volt.

 

[rabar10]

This is incorrect. There is something called the travel provision that allows them to get a credit in 13 states that follow CARB rules.
https://www.edf.org/news/13-states-...would-reap-significant-economic-and-environme

When you see limited launched in those select states the reason is because the credits still count. GM is doing that with the 2016 Volt.

To hcsharp's point though, Ford sells the Focus Electric in all 50 states, not just CA plus the 13 other CARB states. What are their motivations for doing so, if it's 'just' a compliance car?

 

[hcsharp]

This is incorrect. There is something called the travel provision that allows them to get a credit in 13 states that follow CARB rules.
https://www.edf.org/news/13-states-...would-reap-significant-economic-and-environme

When you see limited launched in those select states the reason is because the credits still count. GM is doing that with the 2016 Volt.

I didn't realize they got credit in the other CARB states. I live in one - Vermont, but Ford started selling the Focus EV in many non-CARB states before they allowed sales in VT. They have never treated CARB states any different. In fact Ford has offered incentives to buy the car in several non-CARB states while not offering the same sales incentives here in VT. I suspect CARB credits are not the biggest motivation for making the car. At least not the only motivation.

Why don't most of the other Automakers sell their EVs in the other CARB states? I'm thinking of the Fit, eRav4, Fiat, Spark, etc.