Ford Mach-e

[mark95476]

"Results: Ford sold 475,327 vehicles, up 9.6% from a year ago. Mustang Mach-E sales fell to 6,361 units from 6,614 in Q1. The Mach-E is a challenger to Tesla's Model Y and a critical new product in Ford's shift to electric vehicles."

Ford Sales Miss As Mach-E Sees Dip; GM's Bolt EV Soars 351%

Ford joined General Motors in missing estimates for second-quarter U.S. auto sales, as the chip shortage weighed.

www.investors.com

Tesla reported record numbers (again) this morning and the Y is selling well.

 

[RobDickinson]

'challenger'

Tesla is outselling the mach-e by about 20:1 and thats with band aid production from Fremont whilst Austin gets up and running..

 

[alexgr]

'challenger'

Tesla is outselling the mach-e by about 20:1 and thats with band aid production from Fremont whilst Austin gets up and running..

'Challenger' - that's Ford's PR department at work. They want laypeople to believe that Ford is going to survive the rise of the EV Epoch.

 

[RobDickinson]

I'm honestly surprised they got out the Mahc-e so fast and the f150 too.

Are they doomed? I dont know, I dont see much of an overall strategy right now more oh *sugar* we have to do something.

 

[mspohr]

Funny story...
I have a friend who bought a Mach-E. (A relative is a Ford dealer so presumably he didn't get screwed on dealer markup.)
Delivered about six months ago.
Fast forward to our first snow storm. He's sliding all over the place and can't get up his driveway. He discovers that the AWD he ordered and paid for is actually not AWD, but two wheel drive.
They took the car back and gave him an Explorer while he waits for a real AWD Mach-E.

 

[tm1v2]

@mspohr How is that even possible? Did the paperwork all say it was an AWD model but the physical car was built as RWD? Does Ford encode the trim level in its VINs and if so does the VIN match what the car actually is? (Not saying customers should have to decode the VIN to verify their new car purchase though!)

Basically who messed up?

 

[mspohr]

@mspohr How is that even possible? Did the paperwork all say it was an AWD model but the physical car was built as RWD? Does Ford encode the trim level in its VINs and if so does the VIN match what the car actually is? (Not saying customers should have to decode the VIN to verify their new car purchase though!)

Basically who messed up?

I don't know the details. Just that he ordered and paid for AWD and ended up with 2WD. I don't think he checked VIN, etc at the time of delivery or even checked the car itself. He's not a techy or detail oriented person.
Anyway, Ford has acknowledged the error, taken back the car and given him a loaner Explorer until the new Mach-E arrives.

 

[john5520]

Some years back a coworker of mine bought a new Camry, so I asked if he got the V6 and he said he didn't know. I asked if he ever popped the hood to have a look? He said no. At this point, nothing surprises me.

 

[alexgr]

Some years back a coworker of mine bought a new Camry, so I asked if he got the V6 and he said he didn't know. I asked if he ever popped the hood to have a look? He said no. At this point, nothing surprises me.

When I was checking on the Mach-E, another customer was trying to convince me that in case of an accident liquid acid from the EV battery will spill all over the place. If there is a battery, there must be an acid, so EV are dangerous, he said. And nothing would convince him otherwise. My point, it would be better sometimes if people remain totally uninterested in technology of their vehicles instead of making up FUD.

 

[tm1v2]

Some years back a coworker of mine bought a new Camry, so I asked if he got the V6 and he said he didn't know. I asked if he ever popped the hood to have a look? He said no. At this point, nothing surprises me.

Shame he never popped the hood:

Finally, You Can Buy a Toyota Camry That's Just Like the Ones in NASCAR

It's got a manual transmission and a huge V8 engine sending nearly 700 horsepower to the rear wheels. But it'll cost you $160,000.

www.roadandtrack.com

When I was checking on the Mach-E, another customer was trying to convince me that in case of an accident liquid acid from the EV battery will spill all over the place. If there is a battery, there must be an acid, so EV are dangerous, he said. And nothing would convince him otherwise. My point, it would be better sometimes if people remain totally uninterested in technology of their vehicles instead of making up FUD.

While we all ponder NMC vs NCA vs LFP, that guy knows where it's really at for EVs:

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

When I was checking on the Mach-E, another customer was trying to convince me that in case of an accident liquid acid from the EV battery will spill all over the place. If there is a battery, there must be an acid, so EV are dangerous, he said. And nothing would convince him otherwise. My point, it would be better sometimes if people remain totally uninterested in technology of their vehicles instead of making up FUD.

You should have said "No it wouldn't! It would spill liquid alkali!"
(That would be more accurate).
"Like those alkaline batteries!"

 

[Whatstreet]

Ldub22, my nasty comment was not pointed at you. It was pointed at the earlier comment calling me a shill (which I guess is really not a nasty thing to say). Responses to a few comments above:

• The Mach-E has one footed driving (which I love), but my wife will likely not use that so having regen blended with the mechanical braking is an advantage. I would not consider an EV that does not have one footed driving.
• Ford will do over the air updates
• You said the AWD has not been tested/confirmed. Most of the many, many YouTube reviews released this week were in the AWD long range and many commented that the 270 mile range seems realistic - which seems to be what the Model Y LR gets.
• You may not value a roof compartment for sunglasses but many do
• The community feature of Waze for indicating the presence of police is unmatched and I will not drive without it - even though I also use a radar detector. I have not heard Waze is going away.
• The Mach-E does not have fart mode, but I am sure I can compensate for that (although my family may not appreciate it).
• I have never experienced Ford build quality, but at least they paint the entire car
• Alex on Autos review mentioned that many Ford dealers have committed to no mark-ups for the Mach-E. I guess we will see

The efficiency difference is immense, which impacts all aspects of performance.

Also, there are several issues with thermal management of the battery pack. Convoluted hose arrangement and poor thermal conductivity from the cells to the cold plate. This is a big problem in my opinion, and a showstopper.

Comparatively speaking the Model Y is more spacious in all aspects, rear leg room, trunk and frunk. If you need a family car, the choice is clear once more.

The model Y is quicker and faster in all real world comparisons, whether that be MY LR AWD to ME ER AWD or MY Performance to MEGT. In fact, the difference in acceleration between the MY Performance and the MEGT is profound.

The MY charges faster than ME on DCFC and loses less range in cold weather.

The greater range and the supercharger network make the MY the better road trip car.

Last but not least the Ford ME is fugly.

 

[JeffreyC]

I had completely forgotten I wrote what Whatstreet quoted above about the Mach-e back in December, 2020. At that time I was in the middle of my due diligence on which EV was best for us. As you can tell from my profile photo, I have been a happy Model Y owner since June, 2021. I love the Model Y - so much so that I am picking up a Model 3 in two weeks to join the Y in the garage.

 

[alexgr]

I had completely forgotten I wrote what Whatstreet quoted above about the Mach-e back in December, 2020. At that time I was in the middle of my due diligence on which EV was best for us. As you can tell from my profile photo, I have been a happy Model Y owner since June, 2021. I love the Model Y - so much so that I am picking up a Model 3 in two weeks to join the Y in the garage.

Congrats! Model 3 is a better driver's car than Model Y. We are in the middle of a reverse process, adding Model Y to our 19 Model 3 by this summer.
I think that the popularity of the Mach-E is due to (a) billions that Ford spends on advertisement; (b) overall extreme gullibility of Ford owners; (c) Tesla haters (included those who don't like Tesla design for totally legit personal preference, so not haters in the bad sense, necessarily) who rather let the car to spend 6 months out of 12 in service than going for a Tesla.

 

[JeffreyC]

i spent a lot of time considering the relative merits of the two cars and then asked a friend of mine to test drive the two cars with me. We started at the Ford dealership where I had an appointment for the Mach-e test drive. I checked in at the front desk and then we waited for 45 minutes before I went up to the manager and told him I would never buy a car from the dealership after keeping us waiting so long (I did check in every 15 minutes or so at the front desk to see why we had no assistance). We then went over to the Tesla store where they greeted us warmly and handed us the key/card for the car. We were on the road within 5 minutes of our arrival. This was not the only reason for purchasing the Tesla, but it certainly was a contributing factor.

 

[Nrvna76]

Are people forgetting the price difference? The dealer near me has a couple of AWD Mach-e's for just under $50k and no ADM. Thats $4k below the MY with no options. Does the Mach-e still qualify for the tax credit?

I agree that the MY is better, but Tesla knows it's better too and is making people pay more for it. I don't have any problem with that, but I think that clears the way for Ford to keep some of the EV market.

I also think of all manufacturers Ford has the most likely chance of survival. The Bronco is selling like crazy (if you can get one), and they have been selling an EV for a while, plus F150 on the horizon. I know the numbers are small but I think they made the transition fairly quickly, a lot faster than GM is, and they're not selling each EV for +$100k.

 

[alexgr]

Are people forgetting the price difference? The dealer near me has a couple of AWD Mach-e's for just under $50k and no ADM. Thats $4k below the MY with no options. Does the Mach-e still qualify for the tax credit?

I agree that the MY is better, but Tesla knows it's better too and is making people pay more for it. I don't have any problem with that, but I think that clears the way for Ford to keep some of the EV market.

I also think of all manufacturers Ford has the most likely chance of survival. The Bronco is selling like crazy (if you can get one), and they have been selling an EV for a while, plus F150 on the horizon. I know the numbers are small but I think they made the transition fairly quickly, a lot faster than GM is, and they're not selling each EV for +$100k.

The Mach-E has a cheaper base price than the Model Y, and I believe that is because Ford has no an analog of Model 3. When people buy and SUV-ish vehicle, they often look for AWD and Long Range. A long-range AWD Mach-E will cost about the same as the Model Y. Under-$50k Mach-E are rather comparable to the Model 3 SR. Yes, the Mach-E has for about 7.5k tax credit for about 50k vehicles, which they can exhaust within a year or two depending on their production and sales. SO, on money, in theory, without ADM, the Mach-E is a better-priced option than Tesla. Then, however, I would be looking for the ID.4 as it is even cheaper than the Mach-E, roomier than the Mach-E, and it is also eligible for 7.5k federal tax credit.

 

[john5520]

Are people forgetting the price difference? The dealer near me has a couple of AWD Mach-e's for just under $50k and no ADM. Thats $4k below the MY with no options. Does the Mach-e still qualify for the tax credit?

I agree that the MY is better, but Tesla knows it's better too and is making people pay more for it. I don't have any problem with that, but I think that clears the way for Ford to keep some of the EV market.

I also think of all manufacturers Ford has the most likely chance of survival. The Bronco is selling like crazy (if you can get one), and they have been selling an EV for a while, plus F150 on the horizon. I know the numbers are small but I think they made the transition fairly quickly, a lot faster than GM is, and they're not selling each EV for +$100k.

Ford isn't the only non-Tesla player in town and their earnings were lower than expected. They said it was the chip shortage which surely had some impact. How much? I don't know. Tesla was still able to turn a healthy profit. And now Ford's CEO is trying to cut corners:

Ford Reengineers Plug-In Mustang In Real Time to Boost Profit

Ford Motor Co. is reengineering its electric Mustang Mach-E on the fly to make it more profitable, an approach that portends big changes in how the automaker designs and builds vehicles.

www.bloomberg.com

Will they be able to match Tesla's engineering on the fly? I doubt it.

As for the Mach-E's price, you have to ask yourself if the shortcomings are worth the savings. Are you willing to deal with software bugs or having to visit the dealer for updates and being without your vehicle for days? Or depending on the issue, weeks? These are real possibilities until they get their act together.

 

[gavine]

I have a friend who loves Tesla but he's going to get a Mach-E solely because Consumer Reports gave a negative review of some sort for Tesla. I tried to explain to him that CR is biased, but he's convinced that they are legit and that he won't by a Tesla because of it. Amazing.

 

[RobDickinson]

Well congratulate them on going electric and move on.

IF the car fits and works at least there is that.