Brando
Active Member
I really wonder what would happen IF we just let people freely do what ever they wanted to do ??? The chaos would be fun to watch.
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Ford requiring owners of F-150 Lightnings to not sell them in first year
- Thread starter jboy210
- Start date
This is exactly the kind of case I joked about when Rivian decided not to increase the price for reservation holders.
That the market dictated the price of the vehicle, and if you can't afford a $100K truck then you can't afford it.
If you pay $75K for the truck you can count on your spouse figuring out its actually worth $100K+.
So all Rivian really did was gifted reservation holders with unrealized gains once they got the vehicle off a $1K reservation that was never meant to be an investment. Haha
Disclaimer: I'm a reservation holder who has no spouse, but I do have a part of me wondering if I should sell because $25K+ is a lot of money. I haven't taken delivery, but I should within 6 months.
I do expect profits to normalize a bit, but its still going to be pretty hefty.
They have the VIN and can look up the title. So unless somebody does a runner, they can go after them.
Brando
Active Member
Rivian controls the costs. If they can't make a profit, they go bankrupt. Even Elon (talking with Silicon Valley Tesla Club) has pointed out that Rivian headed for Bankruptcy UNLESS they figure out how to actually make a profit. [cut current costs down]
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What post sale policies does Tesla have in place? I have an F150 order that should deliver mid-July and my sales contract has nothing in regarding the prohibition of resale.
The easiest way not to feel ripped off is not to buy if you feel you are getting ripped off.
RobDickinson
Active Member
People get all salty at this but its absolutely true, Rivian are not making enough vehicles and the costa are high. Their fixed costs, parts costs, complexity of vehicle etc.
They also have no other business to support their loss making (other than the amazon van which I bet isnt a massive profit maker either..)
Ford have a much bigger business to support new loss leaders, but they cant control dealers and they certainly shouldnt be trying to control owners.
It depends on how Tesla construes your short-term sale. This is your Tesla contract:
No Resellers; Discontinuation; Cancellation. Tesla and its affiliates sell cars directly to end-consumers, and we may unilaterally cancel any order that we believe has been made with a view toward resale of the Vehicle or that has otherwise been made in bad faith, and we’ll keep your Order Fee, Order Deposit and Transportation Fee.
Note the "we believe ..." part. As pointed out in these forums, Tesla has banned people from making future orders for selling their cars shortly after purchase.
Regarding how Ford plans on doing this, I don't think anyone knows. It may come in the delivery documents you sign at time of pickup.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Tesla's provision only allows them to cancel your order, but Tesla has no recourse after you take delivery and the transaction is over. Ford however seems to want to have a clause that allows them to sue you if you try to sell the car within a year (similar to what they have already done in the past with the GT as pointed out upthread). I agree it's most likely on the final document when you take delivery (doesn't necessarily have to be on "order" agreement early on, which in some cases may not actually be binding; I've seen stories of people who lost their spots for MachE thinking they signed an order agreement, when it's not).
RobDickinson
Active Member
Suing someone for what they do with the thing they own after they have bought it sounds very American.
EVer Hopeful
Active Member
Do a search on Cars & Bids for Rivian auctions/sales and you’ll see that they’ve all sold for over $100k
If you read the forums you will see that Tesla treats this vary seriously. People have been banned from purchasing future Tesla vehicles. Of course that is different than what Ford is doing, but in someways a potentially permanent ban may be worse. We won't know until we see what Ford's penalty for selling a vehicle is.
It looks like material prices are serious for all BEV makers. WSJ article on all makers raising prices in response to demand and more expensive battery prices.
Tesla, Ford and GM Raise EV Prices as Costs, Demand Grow
Tesla, Ford and GM Raise EV Prices as Costs, Demand Grow
EVer Hopeful
Active Member
One thing that bothers me about the way Tesla pitches their vehicles on their website is the (entirely subjective) "Potential savings" price they default to
Personally I'd rather see the Purchase Price number as that's what I'm going to actually pay
On the Y page there's a huge $7,800 difference between the two which they just call an "Est 6 year gas savings"
So that means they're saying I will keep the car for 6 years AND will spend $1,300 a year on gas - over and above what I spend on electricity
Even at $5 a gallon, that's 260 gallons which at a fairly normal 35mpg is 9,100 miles PLUS all the Electric miles and I very much doubt if I'll do even the 9,100
Personally I'd rather see the Purchase Price number as that's what I'm going to actually pay
On the Y page there's a huge $7,800 difference between the two which they just call an "Est 6 year gas savings"
So that means they're saying I will keep the car for 6 years AND will spend $1,300 a year on gas - over and above what I spend on electricity
Even at $5 a gallon, that's 260 gallons which at a fairly normal 35mpg is 9,100 miles PLUS all the Electric miles and I very much doubt if I'll do even the 9,100
RobDickinson
Active Member
Ford issues safety compliance recall on F-150 Lightning, citing issue with tire pressure increasing risk of crash
Ford Motor Company has just issued its first safety recall on its all-electric F-150 Lightning pickup. According to the American...
electrek.co
aha ouch that didnt take long.
Yes a TPMS recall shows a complete lack of quality and engineering.Ford issues safety compliance recall on F-150 Lightning, citing issue with tire pressure increasing risk of crash
Ford Motor Company has just issued its first safety recall on its all-electric F-150 Lightning pickup. According to the American...
aha ouch that didnt take long.
EVer Hopeful
Active Member
That's ok, they're just like Tesla after all and will simply solve this with an OTA update . . .
Pretty smart thing for Ford to try. It buys them some time. So you pay 100% markup, get a vehicle that is potentially a POS, then you can't/shouldn't bad talk it for a year and a half because you're trying to sell it a year later. Let that vehicle crash happen a year later. Typical short-term quarterly gains thinking. Also, one step closer to "you will own nothing and you will be happy."
Barklikeadog
Active Member
Scalpers stay in business because they make life easier for businesses.
Take your typical music concert. (I worked in this business) Depending on the performance contract, a box office manager communicates with the promoter and gm and they figure out the prices, seat layout, and revenue. When it goes on sale, the big name 'scalpers' will have their computers buy up vast swaths of seats. People logging in do get some. A smart box office manager also knows to hold seats aside for VIP, family, etc and also for the people waiting in line on sale day. Some box office managers will purposely hold back sections, let the computers buy up the seats that day, and then quietly put the rest out for sale.
The building or the tour don't really care how they go. There is a convenience in knowing 'all' the tickets are gone within an hour and their money is in the bank. Some acts obviously get bent out of shape about fans having to pay more, some shows like Disney want more control... so tickets could be your credit card that you directly paid with. What they find with this control is that not as many tickets sell, and certainly not as quickly.
The ticket resellers provide free advertising and take on the risk.
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