Ford will add NACS to next gen EVs!

Next gen Ford EVs will include NACS port. Also will have a NACS to CCS adapter for existing Ford EVs and will be made compatible with Tesla Superchargers via software update.

Honestly never thought any other automaker would take up NACS so this is very surprising.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/05/25/ford-ev-customers-to-gain-access-to-12-000-tesla-superchargers--.html

Moderator note: The first couple pages of this thread are a merge of two different threads on the same topic.

 

[gflar]

Wouldn’t this just crowd the Tesla supercharger stations, making unhappy Tesla customers? Now there are queues, and more peak times mean higher prices. Seems like a plus for Ford and a minus for Tesla customers.

This could make Tesla superchargers like Tesla Service centers, overwhelmed with repairs resulting in unhappy customers. And who knows other manufacturers might follow Ford. This is good for Tesla stockholders but doesn’t seem like a plus for Tesla vehicle owners. Tesla supercharging network isn’t even adequate on some States.

 

[Whatstreet]

Wouldn’t this just crowd the Tesla supercharger stations, making unhappy Tesla customers? Now there are queues, and more peak times mean higher prices. Seems like a plus for Ford and a minus for Tesla customers.

This could make Tesla superchargers like Tesla Service centers, overwhelmed with repairs resulting in unhappy customers. And who knows other manufacturers might follow Ford. This is good for Tesla stockholders but doesn’t seem like a plus for Tesla vehicle owners. Tesla supercharging network isn’t even adequate on some States.

Tesla is encouraging other manufacturers to follow Ford. They want NACS to be the only standard connector.

Tesla and Ford Announce Surprising Charging Station Partnership

Ford hasn’t been shy about its ambitions to overtake Tesla as the leading EV producer in the U.S., but the two companies aren’t as angry with each other as you might think. Their chief executives recently sat down for a chat on Twitter Spaces and made a surprise announcement that has generated...

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

 

[BitJam]

Wouldn’t this just crowd the Tesla supercharger stations, making unhappy Tesla customers? Now there are queues, and more peak times mean higher prices. Seems like a plus for Ford and a minus for Tesla customers.

This could make Tesla superchargers like Tesla Service centers, overwhelmed with repairs resulting in unhappy customers. And who knows other manufacturers might follow Ford. This is good for Tesla stockholders but doesn’t seem like a plus for Tesla vehicle owners. Tesla supercharging network isn’t even adequate on some States.

Tesla sales grow roughly 50% per year. Ford's EV sales are only 6% of Tesla's. I don't think this will be a significant problem. You would be better off arguing to curtail Tesla's exponential growth.

I just posted about the huge pluses for Tesla owners this provides.

As a Tesla owner this was the second best Tesla news I got this year. The best was receiving FSDb yesterday and loving it. Loving it!

Tesla had been locked out of some government grants to increase their charger network (adding CCS) even though their bid was far less expensive than the competition. With the new massive federal grants for building more chargers, the preeminence of the Tesla charger network was being threatened.

This news changes everything. IIRC the federal funding required that at least two major manufacturers use the type of charger being installed. In addition, most other manufacturers will follow suit (or be left in the dust). Ford's EV sales are 6% of Tesla's. I don't think supercharger sites are going to get over-run by Fords anytime soon. The main challenge will continue to be keeping up with Tesla's exponential growth in sales.

Every time a Ford, or other non-Tesla, charges at a supercharger, that's more money for Tesla to expand the supercharger network and less money for competing networks. More vehicles using NACS is a very good thing for all Tesla owners who use (or want to use) superchargers, destination chargers, or any other non-home charging.

More superchargers = good​

Fewer superchargers = bad​

​

More Tesla destination chargers = good​

Fewer Tesla destination chargers = bad​

​

Just imagine if most EV manufacturers start using NACS. Even current public chargers will support it. It was crazy and inefficient to have two competing charging standards in North America. Before this news it looked like CCS may win. Now it looks like NACS will win. Tesla owners should rejoice.

 

[KJD]

As a Tesla owner this was the second best Tesla news I got this year. The best was receiving FSDb yesterday and loving it. Loving it!

Tesla had been locked out of some government grants to increase their charger network (adding CCS) even though their bid was far less expensive than the competition. With the new massive federal grants for building more chargers, the preeminence of the Tesla charger network was being threatened.

This news changes everything. IIRC the federal funding required that at least two major manufacturers use the type of charger being installed. In addition, most other manufacturers will follow suit (or be left in the dust). Ford's EV sales are 6% of Tesla's. I don't think supercharger sites are going to get over-run by Fords anytime soon. The main challenge will continue to be keeping up with Tesla's exponential growth in sales.

Ok I agree with what you have stated here so far, but wasn't there also a requirement to have a card reader on the charge station also in order to get federal funding ?

It seems to me that is something that Tesla has really been opposed to and for good reason, it's one of the first things that fail on the EA and Chargepoint sites.

 

[Tronguy]

OK. I'm going to inject a little politics into this. Not major.

So: At one point last year Biden called all the major BEV manufacturers and the people who built public chargers to the White House and, more or less, demanded that they all stop fooling around and let all cars charge everywhere, already. Report was that Musk agreed in general.

Now there's this Congress & Administration driven bit of legislation that has funding for building BEV public charging systems, but only if those charging systems meet certain requirements. The ones I think I've heard of are:

• Card readers
• CCS connectors, as a minimum
• Meter readings to tell one how much the charging costs?

So, here goes Tesla and Ford and it's (supposedly) going to be NACS all the way. Which.. doesn't exactly fit with that "CCS Connector" requirement.

Further, I had the distinct impression that, with Tesla being the front-running in terms of DCFC installs, there seemed to be a certain flavor from Everybody Besides Tesla of, "Let's slow Tesla down so Everybody Else Can Catch Up!", supported by Biden's fairly obvious support of unions, what with Tesla not being unionized. OK, OK: At the time of this handshake deal, there was the impression that the Tesla connector was proprietary (i.e., not put together by a standards committee), so, proprietary isn't exactly a good thing, in general.. except that Tesla was promising not to enforce patents and all that.

The 800-lbs gorilla is, then, the federal government. Are they going to object to this seismic shift in charging systems? Are they going to let Tesla and Ford set a de-facto standard for the country based upon NACS? What happens if GM joins the party?

 

[SageBrush]

Are they going to let Tesla and Ford set a de-facto standards for the country based upon NACS? What happens if GM joins the party?

Yes.

NACS *is* the US standard. It says so, right in the name

 

[LoveMX]

Has anyone else been waiting for the day that other car manufacturers would be allowed to use Tesla Supercharging Stations?

While I love the tech in Teslas, the cars have so many issues (not just cosmetic, but issues like shudder, poor suspension, etc.). Supercharging network was the only reason I was sticking with Tesla as I travel a lot for work.

Thank you, Elon, I can finally buy a car with less manufacturing issues and still use Tesla’s charging network. Now, can you also please sell/lease your FSD tech to other manufacturers?

This is such great news! Going to trade-in my MX for the F150 EV this weekend!

 

[LoveMX]

One more issue is Tesla service. They charge 160$ every time just to diagnose the issue and the 160 doesn’t go toward the repair! There is no other game in town to get a Tesla repair done so we are stuck. Won’t have such issues with the established companies.

 

[Lectric_Agent]

Can’t tell if this is satire. I’m not looking forward to them opening up the network since that means longer wait times and more chances of ford owners parking in those spaces and not even charging just so they can “ICE” out Tesla owners. And yes I know what ICEing stands for, but I’m sure there will be a new term made up for Ford owners that do this

 

[chinney]

OK. I'm going to inject a little politics into this. Not major.

So: At one point last year Biden called all the major BEV manufacturers and the people who built public chargers to the White House and, more or less, demanded that they all stop fooling around and let all cars charge everywhere, already. Report was that Musk agreed in general.

Now there's this Congress & Administration driven bit of legislation that has funding for building BEV public charging systems, but only if those charging systems meet certain requirements. The ones I think I've heard of are:

• Card readers
• CCS connectors, as a minimum
• Meter readings to tell one how much the charging costs?

So, here goes Tesla and Ford and it's (supposedly) going to be NACS all the way. Which.. doesn't exactly fit with that "CCS Connector" requirement.

Further, I had the distinct impression that, with Tesla being the front-running in terms of DCFC installs, there seemed to be a certain flavor from Everybody Besides Tesla of, "Let's slow Tesla down so Everybody Else Can Catch Up!", supported by Biden's fairly obvious support of unions, what with Tesla not being unionized. OK, OK: At the time of this handshake deal, there was the impression that the Tesla connector was proprietary (i.e., not put together by a standards committee), so, proprietary isn't exactly a good thing, in general.. except that Tesla was promising not to enforce patents and all that.

The 800-lbs gorilla is, then, the federal government. Are they going to object to this seismic shift in charging systems? Are they going to let Tesla and Ford set a de-facto standard for the country based upon NACS? What happens if GM joins the party?

The big question now indeed is what every other manufacturer selling in North America is going to do, and what our governments will do as well. This will be interesting.

I assume, however, that in Europe they will continue on their separate course, as even Tesla has adapted to the European CCS standard. And this too will be an interesting dynamic to watch.

I assume, however, that in the longer term some whole new, much more capable, standard (or standards) will be developed. I can't imagine that we will be using NACS or CCS in 20-30 years.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Wouldn’t this just crowd the Tesla supercharger stations, making unhappy Tesla customers? Now there are queues, and more peak times mean higher prices. Seems like a plus for Ford and a minus for Tesla customers.

This could make Tesla superchargers like Tesla Service centers, overwhelmed with repairs resulting in unhappy customers. And who knows other manufacturers might follow Ford. This is good for Tesla stockholders but doesn’t seem like a plus for Tesla vehicle owners. Tesla supercharging network isn’t even adequate on some States.

Elon addressed this in the past where any automaker hoping to use the standard would need to invest upfront to cover their anticipated demand. So I suspect there are deals signed with Ford for this. As long as Ford put up money to cover for their expected demand, I don't see the issue, given it only means more supercharger stations would be built, which benefits everyone.

 

[stopcrazypp]

OK. I'm going to inject a little politics into this. Not major.

So: At one point last year Biden called all the major BEV manufacturers and the people who built public chargers to the White House and, more or less, demanded that they all stop fooling around and let all cars charge everywhere, already. Report was that Musk agreed in general.

Now there's this Congress & Administration driven bit of legislation that has funding for building BEV public charging systems, but only if those charging systems meet certain requirements. The ones I think I've heard of are:

• Card readers
• CCS connectors, as a minimum
• Meter readings to tell one how much the charging costs?

So, here goes Tesla and Ford and it's (supposedly) going to be NACS all the way. Which.. doesn't exactly fit with that "CCS Connector" requirement.

Further, I had the distinct impression that, with Tesla being the front-running in terms of DCFC installs, there seemed to be a certain flavor from Everybody Besides Tesla of, "Let's slow Tesla down so Everybody Else Can Catch Up!", supported by Biden's fairly obvious support of unions, what with Tesla not being unionized. OK, OK: At the time of this handshake deal, there was the impression that the Tesla connector was proprietary (i.e., not put together by a standards committee), so, proprietary isn't exactly a good thing, in general.. except that Tesla was promising not to enforce patents and all that.

The 800-lbs gorilla is, then, the federal government. Are they going to object to this seismic shift in charging systems? Are they going to let Tesla and Ford set a de-facto standard for the country based upon NACS? What happens if GM joins the party?

On what basis would they object? CHAdeMO still exists and I don't see them objecting either. I don't expect the federal government to necessarily change the infrastructure bill to make NACS qualify, but I don't see them banning NACS either. It's still currently the standard with the most stalls and vehicles.

 

[john5520]

Talk about being blindsided, lol. There's like 1 Ford EV for every 100 Teslas in FL, so I'm not too worried about large waiting times. I'm sure Tesla is just using Ford to get NACS closer to be becoming primary standard for NA.

And with Farley's mouth writing checks his a$$ couldn't cash, I'm not surprised he agreed to the deal. At least Mach-E owners finally have something reliable to boast about.

 

[MP3Mike]

I don't expect the federal government to necessarily change the infrastructure bill to make NACS qualify, but I don't see them banning NACS either.

The NEVI requirements specifically allow the NACS connector to be paired with CCS. (It is similar for CHAdeMO, but it can only be paired in the first two years of funding, then it is no longer allowed to be installed in a new NEVI funded site.)

 

[Watts_Up]

Nobody mention the L2 Public and home charging stations using the J1772 plug which is compatible with the CCS-1 receptacle.
So if Ford cars will have the NACS plug, Ford owners will have to use the NACS-J1772 adapter like Tesla owners.

The issue is that the current NACS-J1772 adapter doesn't lock the plug, unless you use an extra colar to lock the plug.
Almost everytime I use a L2 Public charger, someone try to unplug me, as I can see on my Sentry camera.

I hope Tesla will improve the NACS-J1772 adapter to include the lock mechanism, like the NACS-CCS1 adapter.

 

[byeLT4]

Can’t tell if this is satire. I’m not looking forward to them opening up the network since that means longer wait times and more chances of ford owners parking in those spaces and not even charging just so they can “ICE” out Tesla owners. And yes I know what ICEing stands for, but I’m sure there will be a new term made up for Ford owners that do this

M/Fer? (Mustang/F150)

 

[SageBrush]

(It is similar for CHAdeMO, but it can only be paired in the first two years of funding, then it is no longer allowed to be installed in a new NEVI funded site

Are you talking about CHAdeMO specifically, or the addition of another connector besides CCS ?

I looked at the NEVI rules. They appear to say that every funded port must have CCS, but do not exclude other non-proprietary connectors. I cannot say for sure whether this rules applies to the minimum 4 ports, or any port that wants NEVI funding. I don't think it much matters to the Tesla universe, inasmuch as the feds are paying 80% of the power infrastructure to the location and at least one power distribution. That is a hefty subsidy.

 

[LoveMX]

Can’t tell if this is satire. I’m not looking forward to them opening up the network since that means longer wait times and more chances of ford owners parking in those spaces and not even charging just so they can “ICE” out Tesla owners. And yes I know what ICEing stands for, but I’m sure there will be a new term made up for Ford owners that do this

Haha, not satire (though it reads that way!). I am going to trade-in my MX for F150. I really have no reason to stick with Tesla after this announcement. Eventually, other car makers will catch-up to Tesla’s FSD too. Tesla’s market share could then drop significantly unless they somehow suddenly start making great cars!

In some ways, I have been lucky with my MX as I didn’t have as many repairs as many other owners that I know have had to deal with. Service has gone downhill too over the years (Tesla will be doing itself & customers a favor if they open this up to other vendors).

I do understand the ICEing part & unfortunately, you are right on that!

 

[P3dStealth]

I am of the opinion that this is great news. I get that a lot of Tesla owners in the forum want to keep their own special chargers but we need this to happen. It benefits consumers and makes the ev experience better. Imagine driving around with a gas vehicle and having different nozzles at different stations. We need to get away from this idea for evs. We need them to adopt the NACS connector not because it's a Tesla connector but because it's just a better connector and it's already available in more places.

Now we need them to start putting the connectors in the right spot on vehicles and more charging stations to convert.

 

[kc1953]

Ford to Build EVs With Tesla's Proprietary Charging Port

Ford drivers will also get access to 12,000 Tesla Superchargers starting in 2024.

www.pcmag.com