Ford's Mark Levine is hysterical

[FordMME]

I always loved to hear we took the risk line. I went into a dealership for a car that wasn't in showroom. Go see your dealer. I did. 12-15k over sticker. I looked puzzled. Then I asked. What is that for? Yeah we take the risk to hold inventory. Sometimes we have to sell down and take losses at the end of the year. Oh. I should pay you to order the car that I plan on paying for in cash myself because you took the risk to order it from a cash buyer. They also wanted a non refundable deposit of what is called the ADM. More than anything I was considering buying a Crossfire. That was shameful enough to walk into the dealer looking back.

From that point on I found salespeople that would order the car I wanted. Never was it in stock. Deliver it to my home or work. Pretty much don't talk to me. The model is that bad. Again for me. I don't like the dealership experience.

Why one would want to get into a twitter spat is beyond me. Especially in a professional setting. For everyone at the company saying yeah you told them. There are many snickering calling you a moron. It's like a twitter stamp on your forehead. Everyone at the next company you work for know you as the Ford guy that got in a fight with Elon's army.

But... this is all true. Dealers do take risk, they sometimes take losses, which is why some try to make quick profits by marking up rare cars. You don't have to pay it. You can order the car and you won't have to pay ADM (see caveat below). And you'll wait six months. The ADM is the "buy it now" price at a particular dealership. If you don't want to pay it, look for another dealer that isn't tacking it on - they exist.

The one area where I think MME shoppers have a definite gripe is when they ordered the car and the dealer did not indicate an ADM at that time, and then the dealer tries to stick people at the point of purchase. Ford absolutely should be cracking down on this and allowing people to move their orders to a different dealership.

 

[Doc Brown]

Just looked up vaporware, to be sure.

I’d agree with the statement. FSD is a myth, you can’t program intuition.

Have you ever been to Phoenix?

Waymo’s driverless car: ghost-riding in the back seat of a robot taxi

The Verge took one of the first rides in Waymo’s fully driverless taxis on public roads in Phoenix — and we lived to tell about it.

www.theverge.com

 

[Darmie]

Ford may be in it to win it, we don't know. I would be interested to know if there is any profit in the MME or if they are selling at a loss. Volkswagen had already mention they will sell their electric cars at a loss.

Volkswagen I.D. To Initially Be Sold At A Loss Of $3,340?

At first, Volkswagen will introduce the mid-range launch edition of the I.D., then premium and base versions. Profits are not expected in the beginning.

insideevs.com

 

[mk677]

Ford may be in it to win it, we don't know. I would be interested to know if there is any profit in the MME or if they are selling at a loss. Volkswagen had already mention they will sell their electric cars at a loss.

Volkswagen I.D. To Initially Be Sold At A Loss Of $3,340?

At first, Volkswagen will introduce the mid-range launch edition of the I.D., then premium and base versions. Profits are not expected in the beginning.

insideevs.com

that article is two years old, I question it's current veracity

 

[Darmie]

that article is two years old, I question it's current veracity

I agree but that's what got me interested to know if Ford is loosing money on each sale of the MME? ... And technically, if Volkswagen has yet to sell any ID's , then they have not loss any revenue.

 

[mk677]

I agree but that's what got me interested to know if Ford is loosing money on each sale of the MME? ... And technically, if Volkswagen has yet to sell any ID's , then they have not loss any revenue.

research and development do not come cheap, the ROI once the car is introduced will tell the story.
FWIW: tesla made little if any money for the first few years of selling the teslas. they only began to turn profits from the cars after the model 3 became a big seller. tesla relied on selling their carbon credits to the likes of GM and others

 

[mark95476]

This is the old trope again....

research and development do not come cheap, the ROI once the car is introduced will tell the story.
FWIW: tesla made little if any money for the first few years of selling the teslas. they only began to turn profits from the cars after the model 3 became a big seller. tesla relied on selling their carbon credits to the likes of GM and others

 

[mk677]

This is the old trope again....

trope? do these cars develop organically? your school's economic indoctrination is showing

 

[NickInLab]

trope? do these cars develop organically? your school's economic indoctrination is showing

You said they didn't make profits from the cars until the Model 3. Well, that is not really true.

Tesla had positive operating cashflow from around 2013/2014, before even the X was launched (you can read the old 10-K filings for yourself on the SEC's website or Tesla's investor relations website). The reason they weren't profitable as a company were the capital expenditures to increase production between then and now (building a line for the X, and more lines for the 3 and Y).

You also said that they relied on selling carbon credits. Again, that's not true. First, they didn't sell "carbon credits". Second, regulatory credits have always been a small source of revenue compared to revenue from selling cars. Again, don't take my word for it. Go read the 10-K.

Recall that there are serious consequences for corporate officers who file false SEC reports, an independent auditor who checks Tesla's math before they file, and plenty of people who love to report Tesla doing something technically wrong. Yet, somehow Tesla got away with filing reports that, according to you, contained an easily-provable lie?

 

[BooMan]

Have you ever been to Phoenix?

Waymo’s driverless car: ghost-riding in the back seat of a robot taxi

The Verge took one of the first rides in Waymo’s fully driverless taxis on public roads in Phoenix — and we lived to tell about it.

www.theverge.com

What does Waymo have to do with Tesla FSD? By every conventional definition Tesla FSD is vaporware. I would be surprised if even Elon would disagree that as of now (March 2021) FSD is vaporware. if you disagree please explain? Genuine question as I really can’t comprehend how one could disagree.

 

[Doc Brown]

What does Waymo have to do with Tesla FSD? By every conventional definition Tesla FSD is vaporware. I would be surprised if even Elon would disagree that as of now (March 2021) FSD is vaporware. if you disagree please explain? Genuine question as I really can’t comprehend how one could disagree.

The poster I replied to said: "FSD is a myth, you can’t program intuition."

Waymo cars are driving themselves in the Phoenix metro area. Not at myth. They are full . . . self . . .drive.

 

[BooMan]

The poster I replied to said: "FSD is a myth, you can’t program intuition."

Waymo cars are driving themselves in the Phoenix metro area. Not at myth. They are full . . . self . . .drive.

Maybe but not SAE level 5. Pretty sure the Waymo cars are geo fenced which by definition is Level 3 I believe (maybe 4).

i guess my “confusion” is that people seem to conflate marketing (ie “FSD”) with the actual definition of SAE Level 5. I fear Elon may have contributed to this confusion although he has backed of using the two (FSD and Level 5) in the same sentence the last couple of years.

 

[DrGamerICU]

I am a new member here, explicitly buying a tesla to avoid the dealerships in any-way shape or form,
all my prior cars I used to buy before this were private sales used car market in order to do just that,
the model is outdated, relegated, useless middle-man driven money grab - tantamount to the physician recruiters for locum companies around the country.
Monopoly does not begin to describe that structure, the consumers already voted against them - look at Carvana, Carmax - all built on the idea to avoid dealerships, if that's not evidence, then what is? Unfortunately money talks and these greedy middle men are doing no service to progression of society and civilization, a useless vestigial organ that needs to be excised like a malignancy, unfortunately the metastasis is great and will take time.

 

[thesmokingman]

Levine's tweet's show poor form. Ya think Ford wants to get into a beef on twitter vs Tesla? What a douchenozzle.... lol.

 

[RobDickinson]

Ford/Levine etc pay for twitter adverts for more followers. Very sad.

 

[Darmie]

Ford/Levine etc pay for twitter adverts for more followers. Very sad.

That's a thing? I need to get out more.