Foreshadowing

[gg_got_a_tesla]

True, but what's the point of getting a car like this without most of the options? No-option cars only sell to car rental companies.

Agree with this.

My S has the 'minimum' set of options that makes the car live up to its price tag - 60 kWh, Supercharging, Leather and Tech - and this same setup would have an out-the-door price (in Calif.) of just about $90k now before tax credits!

So, an equivalent X is sure to be pushing 100 Grand. A bit much for those who are really extending themselves as it is.

I really hope Tesla isn't sucking the air out of all the momentum generated this past few months...

 

[brianman]

When Elon speaks of Tesla's three-stage price/volume strategy, he skips over the Model X. I believe that's because, in his mind, the Model X is just an extension of the Model S.

Totally agree. He (and others) see Model S and X as "same generation of the family". (Original) Roadster and Gen 3 are in different generations than {S,X}. It remains to be seen if the truck and NextGen Roadster are in the same generation as Gen3 or not.

 

[SCW-Greg]

Performance matters.

Says the woman who drives a Roadster.

No doubt the need to have profits to cover the back-end support for the Model S, as well as get the Model X rolling, but wouldn't entirely rule out that there might be cost averaging that occurs across the three models... to make the price structure of the III work.

 

[Anzir]

Performance matters.

A loaded Cayenne Turbo S is faster. Perhaps cheaper.

 

[brianman]

A loaded Cayenne Turbo S is faster. Perhaps cheaper.

I wouldn't be so sure about that...

Cayenne Turbo S - All Cayenne Models - All Porsche Vehicles - Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG
0-60 mph: 4.3s

Model S Features | Tesla Motors
0-60 mph: 4.2s

I'd like to see some video of the Cayenne Turbo S vs. the Model S Perf in 0-60 by someone reputable (MotorTrend, Edmunds, etc.).


And I think bonnie was talking about the Model X, not the Model S.

I don't think the public has seen a Tesla two-motor vehicle perform yet, but I strongly suspect sub-4 seconds is likely for the Model X.

 

[NigelM]

A loaded Cayenne Turbo S is faster. Perhaps cheaper.

But it's not electric.

 

[Anzir]

I wouldn't be so sure about that...

Cayenne Turbo S - All Cayenne Models - All Porsche Vehicles - Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG
0-60 mph: 4.3s

Model S Features | Tesla Motors
0-60 mph: 4.2s

And I think bonnie was talking about the Model X, not the Model S.

I don't think the public has seen a Tesla two-motor vehicle perform yet, but I strongly suspect sub-4 seconds is likely for the Model X.

As this is in the Model X sub forum, yes that is what I was referring to, not the S. The Tesla website states an estimated 0-60 of 4.7 or something for the dual motor X.

 

[brianman]

As this is in the Model X sub forum, yes that is what I was referring to, not the S. The Tesla website states an estimated 0-60 of 4.7 or something for the dual motor X.

Interesting! All I see is "under 5 seconds". Do you have a link?

Model X | Tesla Motors

 

[Anzir]

Interesting! All I see is "under 5 seconds". Do you have a link?

Model X | Tesla Motors

That's why I put "or something" in my post. It was just off the top of my head.

Sub 4 seconds is highly unlikely but imagine the media coverage of an SUV that can run with a Ferrari straight line. Handling-wise I don't think it will be made to keep up with the Cayenne.

 

[AlMc]

Handling-wise I don't think it will be made to keep up with the Cayenne.

You may be right but I can see a 170P+ with M Sport 21/265/35's all around. It will need the 170KW battery because with the way people will drive it the range may only be 250 miles :wink:

 

[bonnie]

That's why I put "or something" in my post. It was just off the top of my head.

Sub 4 seconds is highly unlikely but imagine the media coverage of an SUV that can run with a Ferrari straight line. Handling-wise I don't think it will be made to keep up with the Cayenne.

Anzir ... have you driven a Model S yet?

 

[AnOutsider]

Anzir ... have you driven a Model S yet?

Model S isn't a great handling car, if that's what you meant

 

[brianman]

Model S isn't a great handling car, if that's what you meant

Some have argued otherwise with P+...

 

[bonnie]

Not gonna debate handling. But since he was posting acceleration, I think knowing if he'd driven an S would be helpful. Most car manufacturers post acceleration times that are rarely reproducible by most drivers. The Model S, however, is different.

 

[Bardlebee]

I'm certainly not happy with the price changes. I agree more options are great. But it seems they created more options out of bundles that were great deals before. Quite honestly I was about to make a reservation this month and now that the car I wanted jumped up another 10k it seems, I will be waiting for Gen 3. It is just sadly getting more and more illogical for me to purchase this great car. It's sad really, I wouldn't be the person you would call rich, but I make good money and I can afford to save up to have a nice payment on this vehicle. I was one of those people that went from rationalizing 40kwh all the way to 85kwh. Now, that this car is almost as expensive as my house, I would much rather pay off my house then purchase it. I mean, I am not saying buying a 100k car is sound financial advice, but I was really wanting the vehicle and I had the means to only finance 30k....

Now with leather seats not including the trim, and the nappa leather separated and the fog lamps... weren't those in the tech package? Just far too much additional increase for what I thought was a reasonable cost.

I guess you could say this is the straw that broke the camels back. Just my opinion.

 

[bonnie]

I doubt Tesla wants/needs my advice, but this unbundling has destroyed the significant value they had created with the prior package pricing. When I built and priced the original car, it was easy to say, "Oh, it's only $X thousand to upgrade to the P85 from the 85 and look at all this other stuff you get." I had a similar feeling when the P85+ came out and before I knew it, I had a loaded P85+ justified.

I went back through today with the a la carte pricing and wound up building a plain-old S85 with tech and "maybe" the high fidelity stereo because of my unnatural affection for XMSirius. Not even the parking sensors, since I've managed not to tear up my current car, which is dimensionally comparable to the Model S.

Anyway, optionality is interesting, but there's a reason that package pricing is a marketing mainstay. It will be interesting to see what kinds of cars we see built in the coming months.

I'm certainly not happy with the price changes. I agree more options are great. But it seems they created more options out of bundles that were great deals before. Quite honestly I was about to make a reservation this month and now that the car I wanted jumped up another 10k it seems, I will be waiting for Gen 3. It is just sadly getting more and more illogical for me to purchase this great car. It's sad really, I wouldn't be the person you would call rich, but I make good money and I can afford to save up to have a nice payment on this vehicle. I was one of those people that went from rationalizing 40kwh all the way to 85kwh. Now, that this car is almost as expensive as my house, I would much rather pay off my house then purchase it. I mean, I am not saying buying a 100k car is sound financial advice, but I was really wanting the vehicle and I had the means to only finance 30k....

Now with leather seats not including the trim, and the nappa leather separated and the fog lamps... weren't those in the tech package? Just far too much additional increase for what I thought was a reasonable cost.

I guess you could say this is the straw that broke the camels back. Just my opinion.

This is the Model X subforum/discussion. I understand a lot of people are unhappy about the Model S pricing, but there are a b'zillion threads in the Model S area discussing. Let's keep that discussion over there.

 

[vfx]

When the X was shown didn't Mr Must say it would have the performance numbers of a 911? It's AWD being the key here.

 

[NigelM]

It wasn't that long ago that people were complaining about the Model S "I want this, not that...", "It's not fair, I can't have this without the bundle...", "I'm prepared to pay for this, i just don't want the other stuff..."; so now we're complaining that Tesla unbundled everything and OMG we're not going to get any bundles on the Model X and that's going to push the price up when I buy everything!

Folks, the X isn't even going to start being delivered until later next year (best guess) so we're not likely to see a pricing structure for about another 12 months; is the angst in this thread going to carry on till then? Look how much has changed in the last 12 months.

Model X will be the first serious, electric, AWD SUV with a decent range and it will be truly awesome; it will also be truly expensive. Model S is expensive also and if you want a cheaper performance car you'll be able to find one; depending on what's important to you, consider to go buy the Cayenne or whatever it is that makes you happy because Model X will not be the car for everyone, and it won't be affordable for everyone.

[/rant]

 

[markwj]

I'm somewhat disappointed only in that Tesla had talked about the master plan of high end, then "mid" market, then mass market. It was always a bit of a stretch to me to call the S/X a "mid" market, but ok, it's less than the Roadster by a good amount.

It dims my hopes a bit for Elon achieving his goal of pushing the electrification of cars in general.

Yep, Elon won that bet with Dan for a US$50k car (after incentives). The new base is US$63,570 (after incentives).

 

[Anzir]

Anzir ... have you driven a Model S yet?

Yes, my father received delivery of his Sig S P85 in December and I've put a fee hundred miles on it. It handles well, but even with the steering on sport mode it feels more disconnected than my previous E39 M5. A comparison with the 430 is unwarranted.