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Former MS owner, returning - CPO/model Guidance?

Kross

Member
Jun 12, 2017
125
52
Maryland, U.S.
Hello everyone! Former Model-S owner (2016, post-facelift) here. Sold it 2 years ago because my wife and I moved abroad. I'm now evaluating a new role back home in the U.S. and would be returning back to Maryland if this works out. Will know within the next month and would have to quickly move back within 45 days; looking to be back home by October/November.

Would need a primary car right away when we get back. I'd like to get a CPO Model S.

I began browsing the forums to see what's been happening in the CPO Model-S world and I've read some not-so-great experiences by those who purchased via Tesla CPO program. This has me worried.

My question #1 for you: What are your thoughts? Should I be focussing my efforts on Autotrader instead or is Tesla CPO still worth it?

What I'm looking for:
  • $60k to $70k price tag
  • Raven motor
  • Autopilot 3 hardware
  • Would like Performance, but wouldn't be a deal-breaker
My Question #2 for you: Are their certain trim levels, options, or battery sizes I should be steering away from due to some quirks? Any other "rules of thumb" when selecting an MS? I've been out of the loop for 2 years and I'd imagine a lot has changed.

Any other tips you'd like to offer to catch me up? All help/advice is welcome! Hope you all have been well :)
 
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Ostrichsak

Active Member
Sep 6, 2018
3,607
3,641
Colorado, USA
Important distinction to avoid confusion: Tesla ended the CPO program over a year ago. What you're talking about is a used car and not a CPO which would normally denote a certain level of cosmetic inspection and refurbishment. What you're getting is a used car with a factory warranty against mechanical defects that likely hasn't even had the 70-point inspection done that they claim. It's important that you know you're buying a used car and inspect it thoroughly as any cosmetic issues are yours once you sign the paperwork. If you want them to fix anything ask before you sign paperwork and force them to put it in writing. That last part is SUPER important especially when dealing with Tesla.
 

Kross

Member
Jun 12, 2017
125
52
Maryland, U.S.
Important distinction to avoid confusion: Tesla ended the CPO program over a year ago. What you're talking about is a used car and not a CPO which would normally denote a certain level of cosmetic inspection and refurbishment. What you're getting is a used car with a factory warranty against mechanical defects that likely hasn't even had the 70-point inspection done that they claim. It's important that you know you're buying a used car and inspect it thoroughly as any cosmetic issues are yours once you sign the paperwork. If you want them to fix anything ask before you sign paperwork and force them to put it in writing. That last part is SUPER important especially when dealing with Tesla.

Ahhh had no idea about this. Now a lot of what I read makes sense.

A couple of questions about your two points:
  1. Are they still giving additional warranty when buying through Tesla or is it just whatever factory warranty remained on the vehicle?
  2. To your 2nd point (putting in writing anything you notice cosmetically): how does that work? Can you explain to me the process of delivery currently? How you take delivery, what happens when you point out the defects, how they do the repairs for you, etc.
 

EV-CPO

Vendor
Jan 3, 2018
1,027
1,292
https://ev-cpo.com
Are they still giving additional warranty when buying through Tesla or is it just whatever factory warranty remained on the vehicle?

Yes. Depending on the age/year of the car, and/or the mileage, they are still providing the either:
-- The remaining battery and drive warranty and a four year, 50,000 miles pre-owned limited warranty (newer used cars, lower mileage)
-- The remaining battery and drive warranty and a two year, 100,000 miles maximum odometer pre-owned limited warranty (older used cars, higher mileage)

Good luck with your search!
 
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Ostrichsak

Active Member
Sep 6, 2018
3,607
3,641
Colorado, USA
Ahhh had no idea about this. Now a lot of what I read makes sense.

A couple of questions about your two points:
  1. Are they still giving additional warranty when buying through Tesla or is it just whatever factory warranty remained on the vehicle?
  2. To your 2nd point (putting in writing anything you notice cosmetically): how does that work? Can you explain to me the process of delivery currently? How you take delivery, what happens when you point out the defects, how they do the repairs for you, etc.
You wouldn't believe how much of a battle it's been with a select few members of this forum who insist on continuing to refer to used cars from Tesla as CPO which they clearly aren't. They call me pretentious & saw everyone knows what is meant. I try to explain that lots of people don't & intentionally referring to cars as CPO might lead them to believe that program still exists which can be confusing & very financially punitive. Sadly, I've even seen people go through with buying cars they thought were CPO & went through with delivery (official method of delivery for Tesla is to sign paperwork and THEN see the car) and return to have cosmetic issues or other things fixed just to be told "sorry, you bought a used car" and most of the time they don't even get the "sorry" pleasantries.

Back to the topic...

1) cars will include the balance of the 8-year warranty on battery & drive motor(s) buy they also either get a 4-yr/50k mile warranty or a 2-yr/100k on the odometer warranty depending on how old the car is. This as roughly the same as the extinct CPO program but it's manufacturer defect failures only & there's no refurbishment or repair prior to delivery or after unless you specifically negotiate something PRIOR to taking delivery. If you do, absolutely get the agreement fully in writing.

2) You agree to buy the car as it appears on photos. Any damage not shown in photos can be negotiated to be repaired (which they aren't obligated & often don't agree to) and anything in photos was agreed to previously & you'll be subject to possible penalties to refuse delivery. Be warned, they're VERY crafty in disclosing damage without disclosing damage if you know what I mean. If you see a full panel photo assume it's a mess even if it doesn't look bad in the photos. At best, a car will look as good as it's photos in person and almost never will it appear better in person. More often than not it will be worse. In many cases... Much worse. Lots of horror stories out there. Search. Weigh newer posts heavier as it will be more accurate to how they do things today. Ignore most everything 2+ years old because those days are loooong gone.

To properly set your expectations for delivery; expect to take delivery one month from when you click the "deposit" button & submit it. Some have been lucky & taken delivery in a week or two. Some have been unlucky & taken delivery 5-6 weeks after. These are all outliers though so expect a month & if you get it earlier it's a bonus.

Lastly, it's important to know that you will likely sacrifice both lifetime free Supercharging (FUSC) as well as Premium data for life if you buy used from Tesla or a 3rd Party dealer. The ONLY say currently to retain those is to buy a car that had them (manufactured prior to January 2017) from a private party seller so they transfer to you for free. You'll also get the bonus of resale when you can transfer those to the next person as well.

Tesla has made this entire situation intentionally convoluted so you need to do lots and lots of research before you buy anything. any of the differences above could affect the value of the car you're getting from $5k to $10k based on what I've seen.
 
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Pluturi

Member
Jun 15, 2020
138
149
Upstate NY
What I'm looking for:
  • $60k to $70k price tag
  • Raven motor
  • Autopilot 3 hardware
  • Would like Performance, but wouldn't be a deal-breaker
Might need to adjust your expectations as the Ravens are 2019+ with 100kWh battery and very unlikely you’ll find one less than $70K unless there is a problem; certainly you won’t find a Performance at that price range. If you are open to the Tesla used process to get the warranty, then this is as about as cheap as is currently available.
2020 Tesla MS Long Range+ AWD in US listed at $73,500
 

Ostrichsak

Active Member
Sep 6, 2018
3,607
3,641
Colorado, USA
Might need to adjust your expectations as the Ravens are 2019+ with 100kWh battery and very unlikely you’ll find one less than $70K unless there is a problem; certainly you won’t find a Performance at that price range. If you are open to the Tesla used process to get the warranty, then this is as about as cheap as is currently available.
2020 Tesla MS Long Range+ AWD in US listed at $73,500

These are great points and I meant to address your budget earlier and just didn't get around to it with all the other topics we were discussing. I seriously doubt you'll find a Raven even at the top end of your range and if you do it will likely have something wrong with it. You can find some really good non-raven specimens in that price point but if Raven is a deal breaker I think you'll have to extend your budget a little bit at least currently. Maybe in 6 months or so it's a different story but for right now I've yet to see a Raven Model S approaching that $70,000 price point and even then it's got a lack of options high miles or both to get there.

I'm sure any minute now somebody will come along and post a link to a $40k Raven car that's sure to get you separated from whatever money you send as a deposit post haste. It cracks me up how many people in here see obvious scams and assume that's the bottom end of the market for particular Teslas. Avoid these people's advice at all costs because they're constantly in the marketplace beating people up publicly over a car that's priced within market ranges because they're not giving the thing away.
 
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Kross

Member
Jun 12, 2017
125
52
Maryland, U.S.
Thank you all, especially Ostrichsak! This has been supremely helpful.

Also, your points about Ravens not being viable in my price range (Pluturi) is also well-taken. My assumption here was incorrect that approaching the second half of 2020, the 2019 Ravens might be in my range. That being said, I had Raven on my list of requirements purely due to it being the next milestone upgrade for the MS - I wouldn't be opposed to not having it either.
 
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Kross

Member
Jun 12, 2017
125
52
Maryland, U.S.
A brand new Raven in white is $75000 ordered today. Why not do that?

That's a very good point - I have been thinking just that reading some comments. It would end up being $85k with AP/FSD or $77k without (I don't want white exterior).

But, I suppose then I have peace of mind and a brand new vehicle, so perhaps it's worth the extra cash at only 10% on top of my previous budget... still deliberating.
 

Ostrichsak

Active Member
Sep 6, 2018
3,607
3,641
Colorado, USA
Thank you all, especially Ostrichsak! This has been supremely helpful.

Also, your points about Ravens not being viable in my price range (Pluturi) is also well-taken. My assumption here was incorrect that approaching the second half of 2020, the 2019 Ravens might be in my range. That being said, I had Raven on my list of requirements purely due to it being the next milestone upgrade for the MS - I wouldn't be opposed to not having it either.

This will probably be unpopular with those who actually own them but I don't see the Raven cars being a significant advancement to be looked at as a milestone. Not a large one at least. Don't get me wrong, it possesses a significant advancement in suspension but the real-world day-to-day experience isn't only going to result in a slightly more supple ride. This isn't a drastic enough change in how you experience the car over it's life to invest a significant amount of money in over a car that isn't a Raven. The name certainly is catchy but when you consider that you can get a car a couple years older for MUCH less money with features and options you can't even get on the Raven I have a hard time thinking that ROI delta leans in the favor of the Raven. In a few years when they've taken their depreciation hit it may be a nice little perk but I'm not looking to leverage my retirement account just for the upgraded features that the Raven currently commands a price tag for.

That said, I would suggest being flexible with your budget. I'm not saying to spend all of the money for any old car but being flexible for that right car. Too many times on this forum (and personally) I've seen people regret skimping a couple of grand almost instantly. Don't have those regrets by getting stingy on 1-3% of your budget for the right car. I may recommend looking at non-Raven cars as it will broaden your selection pool drastically at a far lower financial entry point but when you find that perfect car, don't be afraid to pay a little more to get it. If you "settle" for one later that doesn't have something you really wanted you'll regret letting the right one get away for the pennies difference (figuratively speaking of course) it would have cost. I still think that the Raven cars are too new and the depreciation rate is still too high for me to even consider owning one but that's just me. I like me some ~4-5/yr old cars that have taken their largest depreciation hit from a financial standpoint but I appear to be in the minority of people on this forum who just like leveraging their future for shiny things.
 
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Pluturi

Member
Jun 15, 2020
138
149
Upstate NY
I'm not going to debate the potential value of having a newer car vs. an older one and what one is willing to pay for that peace of mind. All I will say is that you should do your homework. Tesla has been at this for awhile now and some of the newer cars have addressed long-standing issues like door handles, etc., not to mention that the Raven cars have better range due to the motor set up, etc. They are certainly more than just the suspension.
 

wwu123

Member
Apr 11, 2017
416
347
Silicon Valley, CA
If I try to read into the spirit of the OP's post, you took the 2-year depreciation hit on your first Model S bought new, now looking to step back in roughly at the same price and depreciation where you left off.

Good news is for that range you can pick back up with a 1-2 year old one that will have significant updates fron the one you sold, MCU2, HW 3.0, etc.Possibly more range (I.e. 75/75D/90D to 100DD)

But not quite to Raven (too new), a used Raven is close enough to new price, may as well buy new.
 

r1200gs4ok

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
1,397
476
Irvine
That's a very good point - I have been thinking just that reading some comments. It would end up being $85k with AP/FSD or $77k without (I don't want white exterior).

But, I suppose then I have peace of mind and a brand new vehicle, so perhaps it's worth the extra cash at only 10% on top of my previous budget... still deliberating.
white interior is very cool and easy to keep clean.....dont to forget to add sales tax and destination charges to the $85k with AP/FSD
 

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