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Formula one should ditch the internal combustion engine

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by dpeilow, Dec 11, 2008.

  1. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Formula one should ditch the internal combustion engine | Environment | guardian.co.uk

     
  2. Dragonfly

    Dragonfly Member

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    I've been saying for years that the best thing for EV's would be a race circuit like NASCAR or Formula one.

    Look what happened to development of the internal combustion once they started racing at Daytona beach in the 40's and the drag scene in the 50's-60's.

    Tesla should put together an IROC type event with top drivers from around the world in the Roadster at Road America or Laguna.
     
  3. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    #3 doug, Dec 11, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2008
    I am of the opinion that battery swap services are not likely to be practical or cost effective for the general public in their personal cars. But I think they make a lot of sense for a racing environment. It would be cool to see battery swaps done quickly by a NASCAR type pit crew while the tires get changed.



    .
     
  4. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    #4 WarpedOne, Dec 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2008
    And MUCH safer than refueling with high octane gasoline that loves to spill and burn.
     
  5. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    #5 JRP3, Dec 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2008
    I feel pretty much the same as you. However making a quick swappable battery pack makes racing even more expensive. A race environment is a good place for high power fast chargers and a good way to test the fast charge capabilities of some of the newest technologies such as Altairnano and A123. Shorter races wouldn't be horrible either :cool:
     
  6. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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  7. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    You may be right, but racing is pretty expensive to begin with. Plus I'd rather watch a battery swap which, if properly engineered, a pit crew could accomplish in seconds rather than waiting around for even a only few minutes for a battery to charge. You might still want fast charging so you can top off the spare battery while the car is still on the track. So really it could push both technologies.
     
  8. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #8 TEG, Dec 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
  9. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Here you go:
    The UKP20,000 TTX01 - 86 BHP, Electric 2WD Motorcycle
     
  10. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    The mass of this battery pack seems quite light for its capacity- i.e. a very high specific energy of 266Wh/kg. Also, at 240V there is no way a standard (UK) power supply could charge this in under 2 hours.
     
  11. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    This looks relevant here:
    Launched: WX10-T all-electric race car - AutoblogGreen

    west-race-cars-wx-10-at-pri.jpg
    From their website:
    West Race Cars - West Race Cars - Latest News
    wx10-t-13.jpg

    Looking at the pictures (AutoblogGreen) their car appears relatively simple: forced air cooled motor with what looks like a single speed chain drive.

    wx10-t-4.jpg

    I'm not sure how easy that LCD would be to read during a race. In addition to that, I'd add a standard cable driven speedometer.

    wx10-t-5.jpg
     
  12. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Don't know if they mention it but that looks like an ACPropulsion motor and controller.
     
  13. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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  14. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Awesome. 45 second battery change? I'm sending this to Jeremy Clarkson :smile:


    Seriously, if this can complete 45 minutes at race speed, then it should be possible to campaign it at Le Mans with a similar pit stop frequency to the others (typically the LMP cars stop every 12 to 13 laps and 12 laps is 101 miles). A quick charger would allow one battery set to be charged while the other was on the track.

    I wonder if the organisers can be persuaded to allow electrics in the LMP2 class, like they allowed diesels in LMP1. It would not be too hard to make this compliant.

    Imagine what it would do for EVs to complete a 24 hours with (perhaps) only two sets of batteries being used.
     
  15. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Does the body have to come off to pull the batteries? Seems as if it would take longer than 45 seconds, though maybe the body hinges and flips up.
     
  16. domenick

    domenick Nerd

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    The body is to be altered from the gas version to accommodate both battery swapping and the huge AC Propulsion controller.

    They really need to find a way to shrink that thing.
     
  17. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Maybe water cooling? Remember though, it's more than just a controller. It's also a DC/DC converter, battery management system, and a battery charger all in one.
     
  18. shark2k

    shark2k Member

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    Did you mean DC/AC converter? Cause I wouldn't think you would need to convert to if you are using DC.

    -Shark2k
     
  19. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Most EVs include a DC/DC converter to step down "traction pack" battery voltage to 12VDC for accessories. For instance to take 400V down to 12V to run the radio, turn signals, etc. This DC/DC converter replaces the function an alternator would have in an ICE vehicle. I think Tesla has a standalone DC/DC converter up front, but I gather the ACP150 box includes a DC/DC converter inside their big controller box.

    Another thing to note, Tesla's PEM is now digital motor controls, whereas ACP uses analog circuits instead. Tesla has made some serious improvements to the original design they started with from ACP. If Tesla made their drivetrain available to race car builders it would probably be a better system than the ACP box.
     
  20. shark2k

    shark2k Member

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    Thanks TEG. I didn't realize that so thanks for the explanation.

    -Shark2k
     

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