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Fossil Fuel Divestment - Saudis Want Out
- Thread starter TheTalkingMule
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- Energy Environment Policy
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I don't think it will be better but it will be different (and inevitable) with rapid economic change.
These nations are held together by oil money and repression, taking away all that money and the repression doesn't somehow create a vibrant democratic economy. There's no real reason to do business in SA other than oil, even the royal family dumping $10B into a new "financial sector" completely backfired.
It's going to be business as usual one day and utter chaos the next, just a matter of when.
It's going to be business as usual one day and utter chaos the next, just a matter of when.
The House of Saud made a deal with the devil to get power in the first place. The Wahabbists agreed to prop up the House of Saud in exchange for the ability to control SA's education system. That was before there was any oil money (around the time of WW I). This arrangement means the population of SA is radically more conservative than the government and it is unique in the Arab world.
While the government of SA is very pro-west, the population is very anti-west and they need to give lip service to that. I'm pretty sure the Saudis have conspired with the west to keep oil prices low that last few years to hurt Russia and Iran. The low prices hurt SA, but they hurt their enemies more.
The House of Saud may fall when the oil stops flowing and that is something everyone should be concerned about. I think the House of Saud itself thinks about that every day.
While the government of SA is very pro-west, the population is very anti-west and they need to give lip service to that. I'm pretty sure the Saudis have conspired with the west to keep oil prices low that last few years to hurt Russia and Iran. The low prices hurt SA, but they hurt their enemies more.
The House of Saud may fall when the oil stops flowing and that is something everyone should be concerned about. I think the House of Saud itself thinks about that every day.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Most other countries in the world aren't smart enough to a have a sovereign wealth fund... except Norway... those Norwegians are AWESOME. Wish the US was more like Norway
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Norway is not quite like Malaysia:
1MDB, Malaysian Fund Tied to Scandal, Misses Payment to Abu Dhabi
Lots of corruption in Malaysia.
John Stuckey
Member
Nope. It is a very logical world - follow the money. But very arrogant - hey, we elected them.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Why do some people seem to think that if something doesn't work once that it won't work at all?
Be like Norway... not like Malaysia...
Is Norway a free market economy?Why do some people seem to think that if something doesn't work once that it won't work at all?
Be like Norway... not like Malaysia...
In that way it does not exist not even in allmighty US. But yes, Norway is trying to befree market economy same as other modern economies. Important to say that scandinavian countries have lower degree of economic freedom due to high taxes (state redistribution of wealth).
no thanks
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Aside from the freedom to go bankrupt if you get sick what freedom do Americans enjoy that Norwegians don't?
the freedom to be as successful and prosperous as their efforts will allow them without a nanny state taking an inordinate amount of the fruits of their labor
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
I don't hear many Norwegians complaining... they seem to understand that you get what you pay for... I'd gladly pay higher taxes if it meant people don't lose their home for getting sick. But I'm a true patriot... I put my life on the life to protect liberty for ~8 years in the military. Slightly higher taxes is a small price to pay compared to that....
Norway is one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world with a total tax burden of roughly 45% of GDP– almost 4x Hong Kong and nearly twice the US. VAT here is a whopping 25%. Personal income tax rates border 55%. Corporate profits tax ranges from 28% to as high as 78%.
your idea of slightly higher is not what most would consider to be slightly higher.
you are just a government loving statist
Why Norway is a BS argument for higher taxes | Sovereign Man
your idea of slightly higher is not what most would consider to be slightly higher.
you are just a government loving statist
Why Norway is a BS argument for higher taxes | Sovereign Man
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Yes. I don't believe that blind pursuit of profit can solve 100% of our problems. That is very true.
But... in my defense that's only due to close adherence to reality. And reality has a well known liberal bias.
Brando
Active Member
Some seem to forget, economies are man made. No people, no economy and as far as I can tell, god doesn't control it either. A human game, and humans make the rules. What are the rules? Why did you once get interest on your savings and now you don't? Why was there once a limit on interest rates? [known as usury laws] and now credit card rates rather than being limited to 4-6% are now up to 29% or more? I trust you are getting the idea. There are no "natural laws" of economics as it is all a man made game.
Anyway, I'd guess the Saudi's can just print money, which is probably what they do now and that works as long as people have faith. Just like our dollar.
Anyway, I'd guess the Saudi's can just print money, which is probably what they do now and that works as long as people have faith. Just like our dollar.
are you aware that the lending of money is against the tenants of islam?
as for the "game" for almost as long as humans have been on the planet economic schemes have been implemented for trade and commerce. many of you just have an issue with the US/western styled capitalism
Not lending money, profiting from it:
Q&A: Islamic finance
"Central to Islamic finance is the fact that money itself has no intrinsic value, it is simply a medium of exchange. Each unit is 100% equal in value to another unit of the same denomination and you are not allowed to make a profit by exchanging cash with another person. A Muslim is not allowed to benefit from lending money or receiving money from someone."
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