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Four Upcoming Self Driving Level 3 Cars by 2019

Discussion in 'Autonomous Vehicles' started by Bladerskb, May 18, 2017.

  1. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    #1 Bladerskb, May 18, 2017
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
    New Audi A8 due by end of 2017.
    Complete autonomous driving for a single lane on the highway while under 35mph. It is based on their jack prototype and uses mobileye eyeq3 chip on a board called zFAS. Its latest sensors include 12 Ultrasonics, 8 Radars, 4 Top View Camera, 1 Wide View Front Camera and 2 Lidars (Forward & Rear)

    Technical Details


    Jack Prototype in Action


    Nissan in 2018
    "Complete autonomous driving for all driving situation on the highway."
    Propilot 2.0 (multi-lane) Based on their Nissan Intelligent Driving platform, uses 5 Radars, 4 Lidars and 8 (12 now) surround cameras. It uses the mobileye eyeq4 chip including REM map of every highway in partnership with Zenrin.


    Technical Details & Timeline


    Propilot 2.0 in Action


    Volvo in 2019

    Based on their L4 Drive Me prototype using mobileye eyeQ4. Sensors include 7 radars, 7 cameras, 12 ultrasonics and 1 forward lidar.

    Technical Details


    Prototype Car
    Volvo Drive Me - Public Autonomous Driving Experiment - XC90 SUV

    Autopilot
    Introducing Volvo Interface for Self-Driving Cars

    Honda in 2019
    uses mobileye eyeq4


    Source
    26 mins
    Prof. Amnon Shashua delivers Mobileye press conference at CES 2017 autonomous cars
     
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  2. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Unless it's something new since last month, it is quoted:

    "Revolutionary piloted driving tech has been confirmed for the A8. Long-range radar sensors, 12 ultrasonic sensors, laser scanners and hi-resolution video cameras will constantly monitor the car’s surroundings, with the system also able to guide a car safely through traffic jams at up to speeds of 37mph."


    What kind of revolution is that? Lots of expensive hardware and can only function at 37 mph?

    I was crowing that my Tesla AP2 is able to take any curve as long as posted speed limit signs are observed and owners were hopping mad because they said most don't observe speed limits. I was citing CA-99 for 70 mph and here, you are talking about 37 mph?

    Really?
     
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  3. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    #3 Bladerskb, May 19, 2017
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    Wait do you realize whats being discussed here? Level 3 self driving where you don't have to monitor your car? where you can watch videos, text, work on presentation, finish homework, skype. You can do anything but sleep...scratch that you can sleep, all you need is a sun glasses and the car will wake you up when it needs you.

    Do any of that in a tesla and you wake up dead, in a hospital or paying some expensive bill for body work on your tesla.
    why? cause your tesla went over the yellow/white lane, failed the curve, crashed into the concrete side barrier, went over the road edge, didn't/stopped recognize the car ahead so crashed into it, false positive braking for freeway signs and bridges cause rear ends, truck lust, didn't see car cutting in its lane, didn't see car half way in its lane, taking exits, misreading ambiguous lane lines, using old painted lanes, cant avoid crashing into barriers/ other cars etc. these are things that occur in daily trip of a tesla.

    Do you know how many people drive in traffic jam daily to and from work to downtown? I know people who drive 90 mins in traffic going who would love to spend the 90 minutes on something useful. I personally have 30 mins of traffic going to work and 30 mins coming home.

    The system is also future proof so it can be software updated to increase the speed and remove some other restrictions and unlock other functions.
     
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  4. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

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    Preliminary implementation on the Audi is not what you describe... the driver has to be ready to take over at any time. It's basically something similar to Tesla AP1 and Mercedes DrivePilot, but speed limited to 37 mph. Makes sense since it is based on the same Mobileye EyeQ3 chip. We will have to see how it really performs when it ships.
     
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  5. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    #5 Bladerskb, May 19, 2017
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    Hugely incorrect, there is a 15 seconds handover period. its not like tesla autopilot, there are no instantaneous disengagement. This is a level 3 car not some barely working lane keeping and adaptive cruise control system.

    3mins
     
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  6. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

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    How in the hell do you wake up dead?
     
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  7. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    From https://www.sae.org/misc/pdfs/automated_driving.pdf

    Here is how L3 driving is defined, quote: "the driving mode-specific performance by an automated driving system of all aspects of the dynamic driving task with the expectation that the human driver will respond appropriately to a request to intervene "

    Sounds like what EAP is targeted to do but with far fewer sensors than any of the car systems you listed, none of which are for sale yet.

    Your analysis is incorrect. In an L3 car you have to be actively monitoring the environment outside the car and be ready to take over at a moment's notice.
     
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  8. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    Incorrect, EAP is a l2 driver assistance not a l3 self driving car, this is found on tesla.com/autopilot.

    L3 requires you to be able to read a book/watch movies and not pay attention to the environment and also requires tgat a request to intervene comes with 15-30 seconds grace period

    Here is the SAE levels:

    SAE automated vehicle classifications:

    • Level 0: Automated system issues warnings but has no vehicle control.
    • Level 1 (”hands on”): Driver and automated system shares control over the vehicle. An example would be Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) where the driver controls steering and the automated system controls speed. Using Parking Assistance, steering is automated while speed is manual. The driver must be ready to retake full control at any time. Lane Keeping Assistance (LKA) Type II is a further example of level 1 self driving.
    • Level 2 (”hands off”): The automated system takes full control of the vehicle (accelerating, braking, and steering). The driver must monitor the driving and be prepared to immediately intervene at any time if the automated system fails to respond properly. The shorthand ”hands off” is not meant to be taken literally. In fact, contact between hand and wheel is often mandatory during SAE 2 driving, to confirm that the driver is ready to intervene.
    • Level 3 (”eyes off”): The driver can safely turn their attention away from the driving tasks, e.g. the driver can text or watch a movie. The vehicle will handle situations that call for an immediate response, like emergency braking. The driver must still be prepared to intervene within some limited time, specified by the manufacturer, when called upon by the vehicle to do so.
    • Level 4 (”mind off”): As level 3, but no driver attention is ever required for safety, i.e. the driver may safely go to sleep or leave the driver's seat. Self driving is supported only in limited areas (geofenced) or under special circumstances, like traffic jams. Outside of these areas or circumstances, the vehicle must be able to safely abort the trip, i.e. park the car, if the driver does not retake control.
    • Level 5 (”wheel optional”): No human intervention is required. An example would be a robot taxi.

    Here is toyota explaining it to you just incase you still have any doubts.

    19 mins



    You dont monitor the surroundings at l3
    Theres a reason its refered to as eyes off and l2 is refered to as hands off and l4 is referred to as mind off
     
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  9. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    Infact in the link you posted it has a chart that shows "monitoring of driving environment" and under level 1 and 2 it has the HUMAN DRIVER doing that and from level 3 it has the SYSTEM doing that.

    [​IMG]

    It further divides level 0-2 from level 3-5

    With the headers:
    Human driver monitors the driving environment (blue).

    Automated driving system ("system") monitors the driving environment (green).
     
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  10. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Risk dying happily with Tesla Autopilot at 90 mph

    or

    Being alive and relaxing with MobilEye at 37 mph.


    Many companies has been saying that they are much better than Tesla by coming out better battery, faster charge rate, longer range, quicker acceleration...

    And now, as you said: they can software update over-the-air too!

    Yes, other companies CAN surpass Tesla but do they?

    They can have the ability to send updates over the air but do they have a plan to implement that kind of service any time soon?

    Their protocol is still to bring your car in a dealership in a foreseeable future!
     
  11. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Had to do double take on this. So this is only level 3 for heavy traffic? What happens if the traffic starts moving again?
    The Volvo is a small pilot program. The Honda has no details. Only the Nissan on seems serious.
     
  12. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    Uhm you dont need to be going 90 mph for autopilot to attempt to kill you. It can do that comfortably going under 40 mph.

    The recent update thread and fatal flaw thread is a other example.


    We are not talking about EV tech we are talking about autonomous technology.
     
  13. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    #13 Bladerskb, May 19, 2017
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    The volvo is not a small pilot program. The program you are talking about is already underway right now in sweden. But according to Mobileye they will release a L3 car in 2019 using their eyeQ4 technology.


    Im assuming something like When traffic exceeds 40 mph for a considerable amount of time then it will alert you that piloted driving is about to disengage in 15 seconds then it will give u a count down.

    Secondly whats with the double take? This is the first L3 self driving cars. Its not some lane keep assist/ adaptive cruise control system that relies strictly on lanes and crashes you into the shoulder, barriers, or other cars when its lane disappears. its actually monitoring the environment based on their jack prototype (which is full highway autonomy).

    Its a game changer and just as serious as nissan. Im doing a double take on tesla lack of l3 self driving. All i see is barely l2 driver assistance including eap.

    EDIT: I'm pretty confident that as they grow confident in the performance and safety that they will increase the speed progressively. I don't believe anyone will just show up and release a L4 highway car without already having L3. Releasing L3 allows you to gauge its performance and how customer uses it.
     
  14. MS16

    MS16 Member

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    Will the Audi system be delivered in a Beta state? :)
     
  15. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    #15 Bladerskb, May 19, 2017
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
    nope, it won't try to kill u. :D

    This system has actually be in development and was ready back in 2013. But they pushed it to reach full highway autonomy and develop their central computer which was ready in 2015. what is being released is actually the full version that's been limited.

     
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  16. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    It is nice to have a safe vehicle and indeed, Google/Waymo has come out with its Koala vehicle that has no steering wheel, no brake pedal, and no accelerator. The blinds have been able to use it for about 3 years already.

    The problem is its maximum speed is 35 mph.

    Low speed is fine for safety but it is not practical for me who drive mostly on freeways.


    [​IMG]
     
  17. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    My double take was on the highway limitation at 35mph. That seems like an extremely narrow use case. 35mph is more suitable for local usage.

    Both Volvo and Ford have publicly said that they plan to skip L3 completely and that they feel it is the most dangerous level because of the handoff period. Waymo exclusively works on L3/L4. So I would not be surprised to see automakers just go to L4/L5 directly and not release L3.
     
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  18. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    I knew Volvo had doubts on L3 before and I thought that changed since mobileye listed them going into production in 2019. but I just found a article from April 2017 of them denouncing it. So either they changed their mind or they are still gonna release a hardware product in 2019 but have the software offline for validation or something.

    Volvo Cars CEO urges governments and car industry to share safety-related traffic data

    Personally I think the argument against L3 is dumb and simply shows lack of progress on deployable platform as we see from Ford. I believe ford wont have L4 in 2021 or any time close to it. They are by far the last, they don't even have a L2 (even though L2 system is not a good indicator).

    Also Waymo have come out against L3 aswell.

    Lets not rule out GM aswell, although they haven't said anything publically I believe.
     
  19. MS16

    MS16 Member

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  20. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    Their Koala car has a 35 mph limit because there are no airbags, crumble zone, and a ton of other missing hardware safety features of a regular car. If you get into a high speed accident in that...your as good as dead.
    Their other cars don't have that limit (lexus and Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid minivans)

    Journey – Waymo
     

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