The price of manufacturing has remained low because they are exempt from paying the renewable surcharges. This was done to allow them to be competitive with folks from other countries who were still using cheap energy.
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France will ban diesel and petrol cars to be on road after 2040
- Thread starter jbcarioca
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The price of manufacturing has remained low because they are exempt from paying the renewable surcharges. This was done to allow them to be competitive with folks from other countries who were still using cheap energy.
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
Exactly. German consumers pay a lot for electricity(as they always have), but industrial buyers pay ridiculously low rates due to huge amounts of cheap excess solar flooding the wholesale market at peak. Germans are paying a very slight premium at retail in exchange for a robust manufacturing base that kept unemployment around 4% for the entire economic downturn. It's a good deal, especially since they don't have to worry about paying for things like healthcare and higher education.
The key thing to remember is that Germany started this whole solar renaissance by paying solar owners about $.70/kWh(!) for excess electricity at the beginning of their energy transition program in 2010. It's been slowly trimmed down to $.11/kWh since then and here we are with a robust global solar market.
The feed-in-tariff contracts last for 20 years, so Germans must compensate those early folks fairly heavily until about 2028-34, but after that it's a democratic socialist paradise of free energy for all. They would call it logical foresight, we don't have anything comparable here in the US.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
No. German industry pays power rates way below European (or US, for that matter) norms.
Even though germany is more than the rest of Europe, it is only a fraction of the peak rate that we pay in California! $.58/Kwh !!
What German households pay for power
What German households pay for power
Where do you get $.58/Kwh? The most used rate is E-1 which is $.20 to $.28 up to 400% of baseline. The cost above 400% is $.40. Most folks will not have to pay over $.28.
PGE was approved for .58 by the state regulatory comission, but since they now have excess power during solar days, the rate has been adjusted. Just looked up the rate and it is .436 at peak.
I have a friend that PGE is paying $100,000 per month NOT to operate his solar for his vegetable packing plant due to excess electricity and the cost to shut down Diablo Canyon.
TIME-OF-USE: MAY - OCTOBER
Tier 1 Tier 2
Peak
35.9
43.6
Partial-Peak
24.4
32.0
Off-Peak
16.7
24.4
TIME-OF-USE: NOVEMBER - APRIL
Tier 1 Tier 2
Partial-Peak
18.8
26.5
Off-Peak
17.2
24.8
I have a friend that PGE is paying $100,000 per month NOT to operate his solar for his vegetable packing plant due to excess electricity and the cost to shut down Diablo Canyon.
TIME-OF-USE: MAY - OCTOBER
Tier 1 Tier 2
Peak
35.9
43.6
Partial-Peak
24.4
32.0
Off-Peak
16.7
24.4
TIME-OF-USE: NOVEMBER - APRIL
Tier 1 Tier 2
Partial-Peak
18.8
26.5
Off-Peak
17.2
24.8
mspohr
Well-Known Member
None of those numbers are anywhere near 0.58 cents.
(But it is an impressive scare number.)
Power companies have overbuilt natural gas plants because they can charge more for them. That's why solar is curtailed.
The most used residential rate is the E-1 rate. As I stated it starts at about 20 cents per kwh and after base line it goes to about 28 cents and then to about 40 cents if you use more than 400% of baseline. The average cost per PG&E is 23 cents. EV- A rate time of use works great for those that have and EV and solar. They basically during the summer pay me 45 cents per Kwh for my solar generation and I charge the car at night paying just over 12 cents per Kwh. The guy being paid $100,000 is basically the same problem that Germany is having when the solar output is very high it's too difficult to shut down nuclear coal etc. plants so they are having to pay folks to take electricity. This is why they have slowed their installation of renewables until they figure out how to handle the variability in solar and wind output.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I'm not sure what your point is. "Perceived convenience" compared to what? Walking? Horse drawn buggies? BEV's? There are a non-trivial number of people in your home state who drive many (dozens?) of miles to get to a grocery store to buy those TV dinners.
Lots of big if's...
Then such a ban is a mostly pointless gesture, as the market would have already made it a moot point. The wholesale ICE-to-BEV probably needs to happen at least 10 years prior to an ICE ban to make sure the used BEV market is well primed. There are lots of people out there who have a hard time keeping 10 year old vehicles running - for them a 5 year old car is a luxury they can't afford.
Then why bother? There are few things that annoy me more than lawmakers who waste trees and ink to pass pointless laws that don't actually do anything other than inflate their egos and allow them to say "look, I did something for the children!"
Snide condescension does not help make your point. But beyond that, I don't disagree with the rest of this post.
What extra/redundant resources?
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Looks like the UK will also ban ICE
Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040
Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040
Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040
Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040
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