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Free supercharging vs Full self driving (POLL)
- Thread starter TwistedGray
- Start date
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
I assume it's obvious, that's why it cost $15k for FSD but Tesla is only offering you $5k extra to turn in a FUSC Tesla. But I know people that have gotten $30k of FUSC before the battery popped in their car, and they got another battery for that car as they'll continue to use FUSC on the new $22k battery for another $30k
Reality is that most people will use both of them very rarely. For some people who drive a fair amount of distance, free supercharging can be a convenience, as well as a money saver. One simply needs to calculate the normal fees of their supercharging to calculate how much they are saving by having FUSC. For those folks that enjoy FSD, it’s a nice toy, but there are really no costs saved by using FSD vs not. If one normally would use a chauffeur, and they could use FSD instead, then you could value that savings. But that’s clearly not happening.
hurjio
Member
My vote is for Free Unlimited Supercharging.
At least it has not tried to kill me.
Yet.
At least it has not tried to kill me.
Yet.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
Since the question was VALUE, not how many dollars did you save I still come down on the side of FSD. You may not think it's replacing your chauffeur, but it IS still a second set of eyes on your driving. I feel a LOT more confident having the car keep the frick away from sus cars and windblown trucks as I scoot down the highway. Sure the safety modes of the car are fine, but I would MUCH prefer that it come slowly to a stop at a sign that I didn't notice than have it scream at me to frickin' stop already.
There is value in that.
Sure you can save some dollars on charging for free, but those cars that have that feature also charge really slow (mostly). So you are DOOMING yourself to slow charging even when you are in a hurry and just wanna make it to the basketball game in Colorado on time. If you have the time, hit up one of those slow CCS chargers that are free or cheaper than Supercharging, but when you need it you have 250kW speed to get to your destination in a hurry.
There is value in that.
Sure you can save some dollars on charging for free, but those cars that have that feature also charge really slow (mostly). So you are DOOMING yourself to slow charging even when you are in a hurry and just wanna make it to the basketball game in Colorado on time. If you have the time, hit up one of those slow CCS chargers that are free or cheaper than Supercharging, but when you need it you have 250kW speed to get to your destination in a hurry.
More important for me was range increase and speed of Supercharging for upgrading to a refreshed X. Thats coming from a 2016 Model X. I do miss free charging but would do it again.
GHammer
Dark Star
I have a 3 with both FSD and free unlimited supercharging. If someone were to yank away my FSD tomorrow I'd shrug my shoulders and say "eh". Take away my free supercharging and I'd be super pissed.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
Aagh! BOTH you and Andy (@Bighorn) managed to lay your hands on TM3s w/ FSC? Dang, that was only available for 10 days when the performance 3 was first released. I really should have just bought a second car and sold my original, would have totally been worth it to me. How was I to know it was my last chance for Free SpC
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whitex
Well-Known Member
VALUE is always relative "to whom". My wife has enhanced autopilot on her car, but she keeps it disabled. If she had FSD, she would have kept it disabled too. Value to her, $0. She has only used free supercharging a handful of times, but that is still value to her than FSD would have been. The fast charging you are describing only happens in some very specific scenarios, low SoC, hot battery. If a few minutes difference in refueling time is going to DOOM you, you need to be driving an ICE car - time saving of gasoline refuel vs 250KW is much higher than the difference between supercharging a car which can peak at 250KW (during a short window of time and conditions) vs. a car which peaks at 150KW. You also may need to detour to reach 250KW capable superchargers, as some, for example the Tesla urban superchargers, max out at 75KW. I have one of those urban superchargers near my house, 75KW is the max, but when they are all full, it drops even lower.
Now, if you are a YouTuber and make money making FSD videos, of course FSD is much more valuable to you than FUSC. It is obvious from your posts, FSD is much more valuable to you, but given the poll results as of right now, you are in the minority.
PS> Most EA stations have 350KW capable CCS. Not sure what a Tesla can pull from them via the adapter, but I suspect 175KW since Teslas use 400V batteries.
whitex
Well-Known Member
If you are in that much hurry that a 150KW vs. 250KW makes a difference, drive an ICE car, really. The time saving of ICE refueling vs. 250KW peaking car is so much greater than time saved with 250KW peaking car and 150KW peaking car.
Would love to just travel around more (for free other than time, also have put more than 30k in the Y from long distance driving in less than 2 years), so definitely free supercharging over FSD, which may or may not even become fully capable for those who paid for it.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
I have a Model 3 and can get 197kW max on a 350kW station, the new Model S/X has slightly higher charging voltage so could get slightly more. I think the most I have heard was 203kW.
I was not talking about 150 vs 250 above, I was talking cars that use FUSC vs New Teslas. Those FUSC cars are often relegated to 90kW or less. I don't own one, but I pull into SpCs in my 2018 TM3 LR RWD (GOAT for efficiency) and then pull out again and all the other cars that got there before me are still there. Obviously some people just charge to 100% because they don't know any better, but I like being in&out when I am in a hurry.
The part I quoted is that some can charge for free already (level two charger). While not supercharger speeds, it's still free.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Ok, but it included "when you need it you have 250kW speed to get to your destination in a hurry.", which implied 250KW is what you need for when you're in a hurry, implying that having free 150KW charging is equally useful as free L2 charging.
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zmarko
Member
The real "unicorn". Anyone know what the how many were sold during the date range for a 3 with FUSC? Wonder how many are left? Probably close to none.
zmarko
Member
I'll try to briefly explain why I think more value lies in FUSC than FSD. Tesla offers $5k "more" for your trade than a car w/o it. If the value is $5k, why don't they sell FUSC for $6k with any nee car? Because it has a LOT more value than that.
As for FSD, Tesla wants every Tesla vehicle to be autonomous. He/they want everyone's cars to be robotaxis. Pretty soon (IMO) all Teslas are going to come from the factory with FSD because Musk envisions cars driving people everywhere. The FSD price will absolutely have to come down for this to be even remotely feasible. IMO, it'll have to be free for even some (like myself) to ever consider "buying" it.
To me the real value as energy prices continue to climb, is FUSC.
As for FSD, Tesla wants every Tesla vehicle to be autonomous. He/they want everyone's cars to be robotaxis. Pretty soon (IMO) all Teslas are going to come from the factory with FSD because Musk envisions cars driving people everywhere. The FSD price will absolutely have to come down for this to be even remotely feasible. IMO, it'll have to be free for even some (like myself) to ever consider "buying" it.
To me the real value as energy prices continue to climb, is FUSC.
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