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LargeHamCollider

Battery cells != scalable
Jan 10, 2015
981
1,877
United States
Only 600, not too much. What tires? The 20 inch ones are terrible. :)

The alternative EVs are really going to be no go for me. Without frictionless fast charging range is going to be half gone backing out of my driveway with the iPace, Etron, etc.

Talk about anxiety.

I heard a Irvine - Vegas run should stop at Yermo. I think adding a Santa Ana stop would be playing it safe. ;)
Yah I have 18" aeros, and I leave the aero covers on, with 20s I see how you could get 350, in my car you would have to be tracking it on weekends or consistently doing 90mph+ to get that sort of cosumption.
 
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bpjod

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Nov 5, 2016
516
2,943
Alberta, Canada
Interesting about the vibration you experienced over grooved concrete. I noticed the same thin in the Turo 3 RWD I rented on both grooved concrete and a section of road near my house with a series of ripples - note: my P85+ doesn't care for this either. Interestingly, the P3d+ (20" rims) I test drove actually seemed to ride a bit better over that same stretch of local road near my house (note: I only live a few miles from the gallery so I got to take the test drive on rads I was familiar with). I wonder if the 18s introduce a bit more "bounce" to the chassis. I also don't know what the air pressure specification is for the 18s vs the 20s. For my own P85+ the specified tire pressure for the staggered 21s - 38 front and 42 rear if memory serves - is a lot lower than it is for the 19s (as a comparison).

Could the car be mistaking the groves for lane markings? Try turning off lane departure warnings and see if the vibration goes away.
 

MXWing

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,643
23,001
USA
Yah I have 18" aeros, and I leave the aero covers on, with 20s I see how you could get 350, in my car you would have to be tracking it on weekends or consistently doing 90mph+ to get that sort of cosumption.

350 is fun and also not fun.

I actually have regret getting the 20” summer tires.

Patiently waiting for an aftermarket 18” wheel, and tire set that accepts the aero covers that fit over the BBK. Also needs to be black wheels. Also needs to be lighter and improve the 0-60. And forged. And look good.

Not asking for much, I know.
 
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VT_EE

Active Member
Apr 22, 2017
2,082
2,788
Maryland
In his defense, Some Tesla owners also think the ice caps are going to melt if they are given an Infinity loaner for a day or two.
I currently have a Cadillac XTS loaner from Tesla, and it IS melting the ice caps. At least that's my assumption based on the insane amount of fuel the thing uses. :eek:
 

voip-ninja

Give me some sugar baby
Mar 15, 2012
4,124
5,242
Colorado
So another update.

Auto Pilot training is done but Auto Pilot does not work. Pressing up on the stalk two times gives a sad "dum dum" tone. I don't know if this is related to the problem with the left signal not working correctly or if this is some new problem that will have to be diagnosed.

Kind of frustrating spending this much $$ and immediately being greeted with issues before the car is 24 hours old.
 
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Brenzo

Member
Aug 8, 2018
149
111
Chicago, IL
Auto Pilot training is done but Auto Pilot does not work. Pressing up on the stalk two times gives a sad "dum dum" tone. I don't know if this is related to the problem with the left signal not working correctly or if this is some new problem that will have to be diagnosed.

Seen a few people here with similar issue and was related to it not being enabled in software. Believe phone call to corporate can remotely unlock (no trip to SC required)
 

c_mkv

Member
Jul 12, 2018
25
15
ontario
Cross posted from my post in Bimmerfest Forum;

My current BMW is a 340xi that I've leased for the past three years. In fact I extended the lease a month as I had not yet received the car I ordered to replace it.

IMG_2318.jpg


Replacement car is a Tesla Dual Motor Model 3.

I put $1000 deposit on the Tesla back in April of 2016 after the "big reveal", the thought of an affordable electric vehicle with some performance chops was pretty exciting to me. I never would have thought it would take nearly 1,000 days for Tesla to deliver my car, but it did.

I finalized my order for the Tesla back in June. Right up until the month of June I was not convinced I wanted to own this car, I had read about Tesla's catching fire, shoddy quality of the vehicle assembly and I was worried about things like just one giant touchscreen for instrumentation.

I decided to rent a RWD Model 3 in Turn, to spend a day with it and figure out if it was for me. After the rental, which I was thrilled with, I committed my order.

After a few missteps from Tesla with moving my delivery date out, then pulling it back in I finally took delivery of my new car yesterday. I feel I'm in a good position to provide some direct feedback to those who might consider making the move to electric.

I've never considered myself much of an environmentalist... but I do recycle, I do have a 7,000 watt solar array on my house and now I have an electric car. Most of these decisions I make are driven by economics. In the case of the Tesla 3 it breaks down this way;

  • $49,000 Model 3 with LR battery and premium upgrades
  • $4,000 dual motor configuration
  • $1,000 Deep Blue Metallic Paint
  • $1,500 premium white interior
  • $1,000 delivery
  • -$7,500 Federal Tax Credit
  • -$5,000 State Tax Credit

So, final cost on this car will be $49,000 + taxes and registration. That's a pretty good deal. I guess the fact that the car has zero emissions and is good for the environment is a bonus.

I picked my car up at Colorado's big Tesla service center. Tesla does not have traditional dealerships. They have stores and service centers. I picked up on a weekday and the lot was filled to overflowing with Tesla S/3/X (no Y yet) vehicles and there were a decent number of deliveries going on. Two carriers with more cars were showing up while I did my delivery.

I walked in, identified myself, paired my phone with my new car, and started looking it over. If I had been ready to drive off, it would have taken 10 minutes. Literally. 10 minutes. I was a cash buyer with no trade in... no matter how I slice it though, fastest new car purchase I've ever done. Since Tesla sells to everyone, even employees at the same price there is no negotiating. They have been known to give customers discounts or concessions if there is a major problem with their purchase.

The car was in better condition than I expected. Examining with a flashlight there was no evidence of any re-paint and the paint was in great condition. Panel alignment that Tesla has been rightly criticized for was very good... not QUITE on the level of German automakers but close enough most would not notice. There was one very small alignment issue with the rear driver's side door, but it's so minimal I don't know that I care enough to ask them to fix it. After driving off with the car I did discover the left turn signal is not working correctly. Tesla will correct this with a part swap soon with their mobile service (rangers!) which is pretty nice... beats a service center visit with a brand new car.

I drove off and proceeded to spend the next 24 hours when not working driving the car, putting over 100 miles on it.

I wanted to share my initial impressions.

Compared to my 340xi the handling on the Tesla is better. Noticeably better. It points and turns much faster and the forward seating position (there is no engine so the cabin is forward of where it is in traditional cars), low center of gravity and near 50/50 weight distribution make it a joy to drive spiritidly.

The one downside to the handling is the suspension, which is firmer than on the BMW. It soaks up bumps well enough but there is some extra springiness in the suspension I find a bit objectionable. Some of this could be due to the very high (45 PSI!!) tire pressure that Tesla recommends for optimal range. My car came with 18" rims (the standard "aero" wheels), I'm not sure if I could take driving it with 19"s and definitely not 20"s. As these will be my winter wheels I probably have some time to figure it out.

I was initially concerned that the giant center display would be a turn off... but it's not. I can always see the speed out of my peripheral vision, the screen is enormous and incredibly responsive. It does not have CarPlay but neither does my current BMW. Bluetooth works well with my iPhone X... it does contacts, music, and of course my phone acts as a key (works perfectly so far). Backup key is a plastic credit card that has an RFID chip. You hold it up to the B pillar to unlock the car and you tap it to the center console to enable drive. The phone as a key is more convenient.

Power/speed wise there is no comparison between the 340xi and the Model 3 with dual motors. Both cars show similar 0-60 and 1/4 mile times (4.5 seconds and 12.7 seconds approximately). However, with the BMW you only achieve these times with sport+ mode enabled and in more or less perfect conditions. With the Tesla you squeeze the accelerator and the car simply takes off like a rocket... instantaneously. Turbo lag isn't "almost" nonexistent. It is nonexistent. The feeling of thrust is similar to what you feel in a very large 400+ horsepower V8 car like a Corvette but the responsiveness just doesn't have any comparison in the world of gas burning cars.

One of my biggest gripes with my 340xi and the 328xi it replaced is that slight delay and hesitation when something happens and you need to react quickly with SPEED. You press firmly on the accelerator and it takes the car a moment to figure out you want to MOVE like NOW. This happens even in Sport mode. The Tesla has none of this. Response for all purposes is instantaneous. Pretty incredible really.

Additionally, the car isn't making any noise other than a very faint whine when it is doing this. The feeling of extremely rapid acceleration coupled with no drama is kind of addictive. Scratch that, it is highly addictive.

Let off the accelerator and the car starts to immediately slow with the regenerative brakes... recapturing momentum and putting it in the batteries.

I didn't test drive the Performance version that is even faster with 3.5 0-60 and 11.6 1/4 mile times. The one I bought is fast enough. Never thought I'd say that but it's true. Plus, I saved $10,000 buying the "slow" dual motor one. Go me.

Interior wise the car is nice, but it's not on the level of a BMW/Merc/Audi. It just doesn't have that "bespoke" feel, but it is quite a lovely airy modern cabin. The lack of gauges and buttons and stuff feels weird at first but you quickly get used to it. Interior storage is fairly useful (much more so than S or X) but not on level with BMW. I still can't find a good place to store my sunglasses in this thing. :)

What are the strengths of the BMW comparatively?

Cosmetically the BMW looks higher end. The M body kit, the angel eye headlights, the aggressive "get the hell out of my way" stance, all scream "German Autobahn machine". The Tesla looks good but it's softer. Biggest problem with the looks are the pouty fish mouth. Still not in love with it. It's worth noting that other than a carbon fiber spoiler on the highest end Performance+ version and different rims, there is zero cosmetic differentiation between Tesla versions right now.... oh, I forgot one, the white seats are only available on all wheel drive variants, at least for now.

The suspension is tuned a bit better for a more compliant ride on the Beemer... trade off though is it handles nothing like the Tesla.

The BMW has a higher end feeling cockpit with more materials and the materials feel a bit higher end. The Tesla doesn't feel cheap, just spartan. The sport seats on the BMW have better adjustments, they are much firmer. The Tesla seats were still surprisingly comfortable... probably best next to Volvo I've sat in from a pure "comfort" perspective.

BMW has some features I will miss. I will miss the kick to open tailgate. I will miss the 360 surround view parking (In fairness though the Tesla has a better backup camera and it is displayed on a massive screen compared to the BMW)...

BMW has CarPlay, which the Tesla does not have. The Tesla does have a much better sounding stereo than the HK in the BMW.

The BMW might have just slightly less wind noise than the Tesla. The Tesla also exhibits a tiny bit of buzzing/vibration sounds from the cockpit when going over really grooved concrete, but I've experienced this to varying degrees with all cars I've owned.

That's about it for now. I've posted some additional pictures below. The Tesla looks quite good in person but is very hard to photograph this color with a smart phone. I'm debating having the aluminum trim wrapped in black and getting a light tint on the windows.

I'm here to answer any questions you have, so fire away and I'll respond the best I can.

IMG_3790.jpg

IMG_2318.jpg

IMG_8774.jpg

IMG_9061.jpg

IMG_8964.jpg

IMG_3635.jpg

IMG_4357.jpg

Thanks you for the write-up and the pics. My exact config that I'm scheudled to pickup in 35.5 hours....looks dynamite......
 
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Marsnaut

Member
Apr 7, 2016
311
282
NYC
Auto Pilot training is done but Auto Pilot does not work. Pressing up on the stalk two times gives a sad "dum dum" tone.

It needs to be pressed down twice. Pushing up once (or twice, I forget) usually gives you dum dum sound which indicates that it is being turned off. If you look at the left side where it says D N R on the screen, if the little wheel is highlighted blue it means you are on AP. If the wheel is light gray, it is not in use but can be enabled on the road (needs road markings to start). If you can't use AP, nothing appears at all - not even the light gray wheel.
 

voip-ninja

Give me some sugar baby
Mar 15, 2012
4,124
5,242
Colorado
It needs to be pressed down twice. Pushing up once (or twice, I forget) usually gives you dum dum sound which indicates that it is being turned off. If you look at the left side where it says D N R on the screen, if the little wheel is highlighted blue it means you are on AP. If the wheel is light gray, it is not in use but can be enabled on the road (needs road markings to start). If you can't use AP, nothing appears at all - not even the light gray wheel.

Wow, I even drove a rental for a day and had no problem with it. Thanks for the reality check I will test it out tomorrow
 

spesler

Member
Jul 6, 2018
337
484
Atlanta, GA USA
There was a nice post in response to the Bimmerfest crosspost from another longtime BMW driver.

paranoidandroid writes:

Long time BMW (~20 years) enthusiast here. Registered just to throw my two cents on this thread (I am active on n54tech & bimmerpost but only lurked here), . I currently have an E36 325i with track suspension setup and a E82 135i with Performance Suspension upgrade and many M3 suspension part upgrades. The 135i is tuned and is a beast especially with the upgraded suspension setup.
I was in the market for a new car and cross shopped between the M2 Competition and either latest or upcoming M3 and the Performance Model 3. Well, I test drove the Performance Model 3 and was just blown away. The hyper-low center of gravity and low polar moment of inertia (just a frunk where a heavy engine would be) and insanely quick, smooth and silent acceleration just threw a curve-ball to everything I knew about sport sedans & performance cars. The car is simply a beast and absolutely out performs anything BMW has to offer today. After a few days of taking it up my favorite mountain twisty roads with very spirited driving I'm absolutely convinced of this. I would most likely need to go to a Porsche Cayman to beat the handling aspects of this car but even that wouldn't have the instantaneous power & torque of this car.
It was hard to leave the BMW family and enter the unknown of Tesla startup and build quality issues, but frankly the product is just too good and wouldn't leave my mind and eventually I decided I had to have it.
Order was placed and now having lived with it for a couple of weeks I'm more impressed than ever. I can say I was very hesitant on the ultra minimalist interior but now I absolutely love it. For me this is very much an iPhone moment - when a new product suddenly makes everything else seem outdated and old.
I have a lot of BMW enthusiasts in my social circle, go to BMW CCA events. I give out demo rides to anyone that asks. One of my friends who is as long of a BMW enthusiast as me (a driving instructor for our local BMW CCA) was so impressed he ended up ordering a Performance Model 3 and now selling his M3.
My 2011 135i which I absolutely love (esp. with suspension work) will be going up for sale soon. I'll be keeping my E36 325i (for now) when I feel like driving a stick shift but I have a feeling it may not end up getting much use.
Tesla has a ways to go in the customer service, delivery, and production parts of their company. Especially right now, they are having major growing pains. But I can say, the car is phenomenal and so far has been worth the hassle of the current delivery process and the bit of risk I'm taking with service and potential issues of a new car model.
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,852
3,561
Maine
Thanks for that review. Coming from a BMW 540i and a 330xi, it's interesting to hear from a fellow owner. I thought the BMWs were spartan inside, but I guess the Tesla is more so. No probs, I like a clean look.
 

voip-ninja

Give me some sugar baby
Mar 15, 2012
4,124
5,242
Colorado
I wanted to provide a bit more information around the fit/finish aspect.

This is the one fit & finish thing I've really been able to notice in my first couple of days with the car. The window trim on the rear driver's side door is not aligned to the trim in the C pillar the way it is on the passenger's side.

This is small stuff folks, I've absolutely owned German cars with similar tolerance issues. My 1st generation F30 for example had a few panel gap issues that most owners experienced in cars that were built in the first 1-2 years they were leaving the Munich factory.

3rd photo below shows how badly this car needs some light tint on the windows. I'm thinking perhaps going with a 30% tint and just not wrapping the window trim.


IMG_1061.JPG
IMG_1886.JPG
IMG_6490 2.JPG
 

Stew

Member
Aug 22, 2018
14
4
Oakland, CA
It needs to be pressed down twice. Pushing up once (or twice, I forget) usually gives you dum dum sound which indicates that it is being turned off. If you look at the left side where it says D N R on the screen, if the little wheel is highlighted blue it means you are on AP. If the wheel is light gray, it is not in use but can be enabled on the road (needs road markings to start). If you can't use AP, nothing appears at all - not even the light gray wheel.

Great write-up, thanks!!

A comment on the auto pilot issue.... when I first picked up my M3 the auto pilot also didn’t work, similarly as you describe. I looked more closely and the car was telling me that AP wasn’t available yet because it was calibrating the sensors first. I forget how long this took to complete but it involved more driving than I expected before *finally* coming online. Not sure if this is what you’re experiencing but maybe?
 

Eno Deb

Active Member
Aug 17, 2018
2,630
3,382
SF Bay Area
Apart from the white interior, your car could be my car's twin; I have exactly the same slight misalignment of the rear driver side door. Presumably it's easy to fix by adjusting the door (but it doesn't bother me enough to take the car to service just for that).
 
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RxShah

Member
Jun 26, 2016
29
19
Bethesda, MD
After about two weeks of driving my Performance Model 3 (P3D), I decided to put it in "Chill" mode for daily driving. I got too cocky racing Bimmers at stoplights and feel I have upset too many people. Its just not fair!

Cannot wait for track mode with V9, KITT is ready for track.
 

RxShah

Member
Jun 26, 2016
29
19
Bethesda, MD
I wanted to provide a bit more information around the fit/finish aspect.

This is the one fit & finish thing I've really been able to notice in my first couple of days with the car. The window trim on the rear driver's side door is not aligned to the trim in the C pillar the way it is on the passenger's side.

This is small stuff folks, I've absolutely owned German cars with similar tolerance issues. My 1st generation F30 for example had a few panel gap issues that most owners experienced in cars that were built in the first 1-2 years they were leaving the Munich factory.

3rd photo below shows how badly this car needs some light tint on the windows. I'm thinking perhaps going with a 30% tint and just not wrapping the window trim.


View attachment 337361 View attachment 337362 View attachment 337363
Man, thats nitpicking now, my BMW had much worse issues and terrible wind-noise, spent 4 years back and forth with the dealer getting them to even acknowledge the issue.
 
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SarahsDad

Member
Aug 2, 2013
565
4,671
NC
Welcome to the ex-BMW Tesla club!

I was 100% BMW for 20 years (320i/325i/540i/M5) until my P85+ purchase 5 years ago. Now I can't even thing of going back... I switched to Tesla because it was just a better/faster car (yes, quicker than my M5), and the environmental benefits were icing on the cake.

Model 3 Performance Plus on order, can't wait to continue the Tesla revolution.

And I don't use "chill mode".
 
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