From 340xi to Tesla dual motor Model 3 - mini comparo.

[rdlink]

i never said it was.

You kinda did with your original couple of posts. But I don't really want to get into a big thing. We agree that Americans want (not necessarily need) faster, more powerful cars in general that Europeans need.

But my main point was that the lower end of the 3 Series is pretty anemic. And given the fact that BMW all but ruined the handling of the 3 Series in the F3x chassis you pretty much need an M3 to consider your 3 Series a true performance car these days.

 

[spesler]

Huh? A 328i with 275 hp? I don't think so. What year?

You’re right. F30. Should be 245. Need coffee.

 

[voip-ninja]

I get it. There are definite differences in the driving habits and needs between the large, open highways of the US, with $2.50-$3.00 per gallon gas, and Europe, with smaller, more highly populated areas, and $5.00+ per gallon petrol. And I won't go into the discussion of how much gas gets wasted, and how much environmental damage is created by US drivers' "need for speed" in ICE cars.

But that doesn't change the objective fact that <200 hp, and 0-60 in over 7 seconds is not a "performance" car.

Let's not moan about how much fuel Americans waste driving their SUVs and bigger engined cars when you have the German autobahn with drivers routinely driving over 100+ mph and getting 8 mpg even in their dinky BMW 320i or VW Golfs.

I should comment that I personally have ZERO issue with the Autobahn or similar highways, I've driven it and enjoyed it immensely, it is a national treasure for Germany.

If people are horrified with fuel consumption then the best way to combat it is with higher gasoline taxes, however higher gasoline taxes are political suicide and both parties know this.

Anyways, this discussion is quickly veering off topic, or off target, stay on target!

 

[Autoxer7]

Cross posted from my post in Bimmerfest Forum;

It soaks up bumps well enough but there is some extra springiness in the suspension I find a bit objectionable.​

I've noticed the same "springiness" issue with my 3D. It's most noticeable when the car comes unsettled in a corner due to an uneven road surface or entering the corner too fast. I'm blaming the under-damped shocks and hoping Koni or Bilstein come up with a solution soon. In the meantime I'm already shopping for tires after just 600 miles on the stock 18" Michelins... not a good tire for those of us who like spirited driving.

 

[voip-ninja]

I've noticed the same "springiness" issue with my 3D. It's most noticeable when the car comes unsettled in a corner due to an uneven road surface or entering the corner too fast. I'm blaming the under-damped shocks and hoping Koni or Bilstein come up with a solution soon. In the meantime I'm already shopping for tires after just 600 miles on the stock 18" Michelins... not a good tire for those of us who like spirited driving.

You also might check tire pressure, my tires were over inflated and reducing them did help with the handling.

I'll be contemplating making the move to 19"s in the spring, probably going to keep the 18s and the stock rubber through the winter. They aren't good snow tires but are average for all season use and should be fine with the amount of tread depth that they have new.

As my current plans are to keep this car for around 5 yrs I will also consider aftermarket suspension upgrade after manufacturers get more time with the chassis.

 

[turtlesz]

Huh? A 328i with 275 hp? I don't think so. What year?

Official specs from BMW mark it as 240hp, however BMW underrates it's HP numbers frequently. Car and Driver tested the 0-60 at 5.2 seconds. In comparison, the Lexus IS200t is labeled at 241hp and was tested at 6.5 seconds 0-60.

 

[rdlink]

Let's not moan about how much fuel Americans waste driving their SUVs and bigger engined cars when you have the German autobahn with drivers routinely driving over 100+ mph and getting 8 mpg even in their dinky BMW 320i or VW Golfs.

I should comment that I personally have ZERO issue with the Autobahn or similar highways, I've driven it and enjoyed it immensely, it is a national treasure for Germany.

If people are horrified with fuel consumption then the best way to combat it is with higher gasoline taxes, however higher gasoline taxes are political suicide and both parties know this.

Anyways, this discussion is quickly veering off topic, or off target, stay on target!

I agree with the stay on target sentiment, but I'm not going to let you get away with that BS unchallenged.

First of all, I seriously doubt that the Autobahn has that many people "routinely doing 100" these days. From what I have heard from friends who have experience it the reputation it once had is overblown.

Second, my problem isn't as much the idea of people driving SUVs, muscle cars, BATs (Big Ass Trucks) when they don't need them as it is with how many of them buy those things and don't even use them for their supposed utility. Do you really need a Ford Expedition or Suburban for two people to go to the mall? Or an F-350 that's nothing more than eye candy, and never hauls anything heavier than 250 lbs of driver, and a suitcase of Coors Light?

To quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I got to say about that."

 

[fluxemag]

I came from a Model S40 to a 428xi Gran Coupe to a Model 3 LR, I agree with almost all of the OP's points. It's so nice not to have turbo lag, to have no drama passing ability and extreme efficiency. The Model 3 isn't a great looking car and the interior doesn't have the quality feel of the BMW, especially with the M package and real leather. The only place I disagree is with the HK stereo, which was the best stereo I've had in any car, but that's always highly subjective. Anyway, overall the Model 3 is the better car, I'm happy.

 

[Eno Deb]

IFirst of all, I seriously doubt that the Autobahn has that many people "routinely doing 100" these days. From what I have heard from friends who have experience it the reputation it once had is overblown.

Having lived in Germany for many years I can tell you that 100mph (~160km/h) is not an unusual speed at all. Most people probably drive between 130 and 160kmh. Faster cars often go 180 (typically traveling salesmen driving Benz E class, BMW 5 series or Audi A6), and occasionally a cruise missile going >200km/h will pass you.

I think the primary reason why cars in the US tend to have bigger engines is the price of gas.

 

[voip-ninja]

I agree with the stay on target sentiment, but I'm not going to let you get away with that BS unchallenged.

First of all, I seriously doubt that the Autobahn has that many people "routinely doing 100" these days. From what I have heard from friends who have experience it the reputation it once had is overblown.

Second, my problem isn't as much the idea of people driving SUVs, muscle cars, BATs (Big Ass Trucks) when they don't need them as it is with how many of them buy those things and don't even use them for their supposed utility. Do you really need a Ford Expedition or Suburban for two people to go to the mall? Or an F-350 that's nothing more than eye candy, and never hauls anything heavier than 250 lbs of driver, and a suitcase of Coors Light?

To quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I got to say about that."

Well I'm not going to let you get off that easily either.

What is great about this country is that we have the choice to buy the things we want, even if others disagree with those choices. If someone wants to buy a big SUV and use it as their daily commuter, or someone wants to buy a huge truck and never use it to haul anything because they like it, it is their freedom to do so. Those vehicles are required to conform to safety and emissions standards, and even minimum fuel economy standards, just like any other car.

The path to hell is paved with the well meaning intentions of people who believed that we should all be told what we can and cannot have.... "for the greater good".

As long as you're going to tell people that they shouldn't/can't have a larger or more powerful car than they "need" why stop there? You absolutely need to go after all of those DINKs (dual income no kids) people living in larger homes, wasting valuable resources.

Socialism sucks, and that's about all I have to say about that.

 

[VT_EE]

There is a balance to be had: maintaining as much freedom of choice as possible while realizing limitless choice is not sustainable. We have to share this planet, and that is reality. It shouldn’t matter what people drive when that big SUV is electric and using sustainable fuel.

 

[Candleflame]

Let's not moan about how much fuel Americans waste driving their SUVs and bigger engined cars when you have the German autobahn with drivers routinely driving over 100+ mph and getting 8 mpg even in their dinky BMW 320i or VW Golfs.

I should comment that I personally have ZERO issue with the Autobahn or similar highways, I've driven it and enjoyed it immensely, it is a national treasure for Germany.

If people are horrified with fuel consumption then the best way to combat it is with higher gasoline taxes, however higher gasoline taxes are political suicide and both parties know this.

Anyways, this discussion is quickly veering off topic, or off target, stay on target!

Complete nonsense, I used to routinely drive an E46 318 and an E90 320d convertible from Germany to the UK traveling at much higher speeds than you would in the USA. The 318 would get about 9L/100km at the end and the 320d about 6L/100km or so.

Just driving at 200km/h on the Autobahn with associated frequent breaking and accelerating uses about 12L/100kmh in the 318 and 8L/100kmh in the diesel. So even with the old E46 this is still 20usmpg.

You kinda did with your original couple of posts. But I don't really want to get into a big thing. We agree that Americans want (not necessarily need) faster, more powerful cars in general that Europeans need.

But my main point was that the lower end of the 3 Series is pretty anemic. And given the fact that BMW all but ruined the handling of the 3 Series in the F3x chassis you pretty much need an M3 to consider your 3 Series a true performance car these days.

I said it was a sports car/sports sedan which even the 316s get marketed as in europe. You can even get (or at least used to be able to) the M3 trim on them i.e. M3style interior and sport suspension.

 

[brianman]

the car was telling me that AP wasn’t available yet because it was calibrating the sensors first. I forget how long this took to complete but it involved more driving than I expected before *finally* coming online.

For our 3, it took 39 miles on the ODO for TACC to be available and 50 miles for AutoSteer. FYI.

With over 2000 miles on the vehicle, we're still waiting for FSD to finish calibration.

 

[Verdi]

Add me to the list of BMW defectors.

Having owned both a 135i and 328i, and driving >20k mi a year, the tax credit and gas savings make the financials of an AWD more appealing than the 340i/440i GC I was considering.

The fact that it will be quicker, too, doesn’t hurt!

I'm also a BMW defector. I've owned 10 BMW:s over the years including two M2:s, a 435, 335, 550... Now I have a Model S 90D until Friday when I get my brand new S 100D. The Model 3 hasn't made it over here yet but I'm already making plans to replace my BMW i3 when it does.

Thing is with petrol heads is that they are afraid of losing something they love very much. They can't understand that the future is even better!

 

[ebmcs03]

Thing is with petrol heads is that they are afraid of losing something they love very much. They can't understand that the future is even better!

They’re losing the nice premium interior the BMW.

The propulsion system is definitely better on the Tesla.

 

[Verdi]

They’re losing the nice premium interior the BMW.

The propulsion system is definitely better on the Tesla.

I don't get it. What's so nice about the BMW interiors unless you go with full leather dash, merino leather seats etc?

 

[spesler]

It's true. I will miss my gorgeous Everest Grey interior with piano black, red stripe, and black headliner. Also, the HUD, heated steering wheel, and surround view. But, those are secondary to the driving experience. No looking back!

 

[Runt8]

It's true. I will miss my gorgeous Everest Grey interior with piano black, red stripe, and black headliner. Also, the HUD, heated steering wheel, and surround view. But, those are secondary to the driving experience. No looking back!

Before I recalibrated my expectation of what a car interior should look like I would have enjoyed that. Now I just see a ton of buttons I’ll never use. The whole iPhone sentiment is completely accurate - the Model 3 interior (among other things) is a paradigm shift that makes what came before look completely antiquated.

 

[ebmcs03]

I don't get it. What's so nice about the BMW interiors unless you go with full leather dash, merino leather seats etc?

Yes! That! The 6 series grand coupe. Full Merino Ivory white two tone leather interior. Full leather dash with that nice stitching. My favorite interior of all time. Can’t wait for the 6 series grand coupe to be sold in electric form. Hehe

 

[mongo]

Yes! That! The 6 series grand coupe. Full Merino Ivory white two tone leather interior. Full leather dash with that nice stitching. My favorite interior of all time. Can’t wait for the 6 series grand coupe to be sold in electric form. Hehe

View attachment 337999

View attachment 338000

All I see is plastic manual dash vents ...

(then what looks like a cluster with recessed gauges, as a taller than average driver, those drive me crazy).