From 55 mph to a complete stop! Worst phantom braking. FSD Beta 10.12.2 - Reproducible with 2 different Tesla’s

[Luisito]

A little out of date on the mapping version. But that shouldn't cause a problem unless there is significant changes in the road structure.

Let's check the visualization next time you have the opportunity to try it safely.

Sorry my bad, I posted the previous Nav map data. All three cars are on NA-2021,44-13555.

 

[Luisito]

Have you tried at different time during the day ?

Mornings, evenings, doesn’t seem to matter. I’m so use to it wanting to stop that I disengage prior to that spot and reengage afterwards.

 

[Supcom]

Mornings, evenings, doesn’t seem to matter. I’m so use to it wanting to stop that I disengage prior to that spot and reengage afterwards.

Only in that one direction from the curve? None of the others?

 

[Luisito]

I think what they’re is asking is to to clarify if the vehicle was utilizing NoA logic or FSDb Logic. I have the same question, my assumption is you’re saying with the FSDb logic. NoA can still run on a car with the FSD Beta 10.12 firmware.

I miss quoted the NAV database. All three cars are on NA-2021,44-13555. Yes, I’m assuming it’s the FSDb logic since the Model 3 which is on the same NAV database does not have FSD beta whereas the Model S and X are on beta. In all cases I’m using autopilot and not NoA since the navigation is incorrect. Not sure why if I have NoA off it try’s to follow a route that is not on.

So with just autopilot on it should stay centered in the lane following the posted speed limits but it’s acting like NoA is on.

 

[Luisito]

Only in that one direction from the curve? None of the others?

Yes. None others. When headed in the opposite direction (Westbound), you can either head straight on the fork “spur” road or take the same curve. No issues taking either road when headed westbound.

 

[KLam]

I miss quoted the NAV database. All three cars are on NA-2021,44-13555. Yes, I’m assuming it’s the FSDb logic since the Model 3 which is on the same NAV database does not have FSD beta whereas the Model S and X are on beta. In all cases I’m using autopilot and not NoA since the navigation is incorrect. Not sure why if I have NoA off it try’s to follow a route that is not on.

So with just autopilot on it should stay centered in the lane following the posted speed limits but it’s acting like NoA is on.

I wonder if you turn off the FSD beta on the Model S and X, would behave like the Model 3.

 

[Luisito]

I wonder if you turn off the FSD beta on the Model S and X, would behave like the Model 3.

Next time I’ll try it with FSD beta off.

 

[Luisito]

Maybe the car sees clay pigeons coming from the skeet range on the left...

Seriously, I Iooked at the google maps to see if there was a county or city boundary at that location. Although the city limit parallels the road to the south, it does not cross the road here. And the county line is well to the east. I have a highway near me where FSD slows way down right at a county line. Can't say if it would stop though.

The only thing is the other road merging in from the west. Your location is just after the merge with Spur 707, so maybe a mistaken right-of-way coding in the map?

It would be interesting to see if an M3 or MY with beta also stops here. Maybe someone else on TMC lives in Abilene, or is going to drive through there soon on I-20.

I believe you are correct, “mistaken right-of-way coding“ not clay pigeons (lol). Since the latest NA-2021,44-13555 update the navigation wants to take a u-turn on that spur road where the skeet range is. That’s why I have NoA off. But it acts like it’s still on.

So if anyone is headed eastbound on that road without any navigation on, they will be in for a surprise when it try’s to stop instead of continuing straight.

 

[DarkForest]

The only thing is the other road merging in from the west. Your location is just after the merge with Spur 707, so maybe a mistaken right-of-way coding in the map?

It would be interesting to see if an M3 or MY with beta also stops here. Maybe someone else on TMC lives in Abilene, or is going to drive through there soon on I-20.

That's what I was wondering, too.

I have an appointment about a mile from that intersection in a month, and I have an M3 with the beta. If the issue hasn't been figured out by then, I'll swing by to see if it affects my car, too. I'm guessing by then we'll be on 10.13.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

I have a 55mph road near me where both the beta and regular 2022.16.3 thinks there’s a traffic signal and will brake from 55. There is nothing close to a traffic signal at this location. I know where this happens and override it with the accelerator pedal. Still sucks.

 

[electric-donut]

I am new here, so please forgive my ignorance of FSD, but this strikes me as a much larger issue. The database will likely never be 100% correct. If slamming on the brakes is the proper response to being unable to come to a successful conclusion on a calculation, then it is doing the right thing. I assume the Level 5 specs call this out as the appropriate action. Again, I am new, so please be gentle.

Roads change. They close, they open. Someone has to be first to travel down the road. Once FSD level-5 goes live, there will be no driver interaction required. It better know how to handle what it sees, and abort action if it is not sure of its response.

I just purchased my first Tesla w/FSD last week. One of the first things I did was to activate AP on a city street. I expected it to behave like adaptive cruise control. One of its first actions was to slam on the breaks at a green light as we headed into the intersection. I thought I read where AP wasn't supposed to be used on city streets.

Since I am not in the FSD Beta program, I am not sure if it took the appropriate action when encountering the traffic signal. Maybe it should have just reverted to adaptive cruise, I don't know the specs again. I suppose it did the right thing, but I suspect the action for FSD should be different from the AP/E-AP action in this case, since I think those are level-2 functions. I understand some the code bases are being merged for AP/EAP and FSD. I have the feeling that beta FSD software has found its way into the AP/EAP code base. I say this because I am not in the beta program.

 

[DM 216443]

Road surface in photo looks unusual like an old oil spill or some discoloration.

 

[Luisito]

I am new here, so please forgive my ignorance of FSD, but this strikes me as a much larger issue. The database will likely never be 100% correct. If slamming on the brakes is the proper response to being unable to come to a successful conclusion on a calculation, then it is doing the right thing. I assume the Level 5 specs call this out as the appropriate action. Again, I am new, so please be gentle.

Roads change. They close, they open. Someone has to be first to travel down the road. Once FSD level-5 goes live, there will be no driver interaction required. It better know how to handle what it sees, and abort action if it is not sure of its response.

I just purchased my first Tesla w/FSD last week. One of the first things I did was to activate AP on a city street. I expected it to behave like adaptive cruise control. One of its first actions was to slam on the breaks at a green light as we headed into the intersection. I thought I read where AP wasn't supposed to be used on city streets.

Since I am not in the FSD Beta program, I am not sure if it took the appropriate action when encountering the traffic signal. Maybe it should have just reverted to adaptive cruise, I don't know the specs again. I suppose it did the right thing, but I suspect the action for FSD should be different from the AP/E-AP action in this case, since I think those are level-2 functions. I understand some the code bases are being merged for AP/EAP and FSD. I have the feeling that beta FSD software has found its way into the AP/EAP code base. I say this because I am not in the beta program.

Yes roads change and that’s why we need accurate maps. But this road has been here for as long as I can remember. Possibly 15+ years or maybe longer. If anything they have widened the road adding turning lanes and better street markings but that’s way ahead of where this event occurs.

I’m just merely pointing out a bug in the FSD logic and or maps. Now granted, the beta FSD clearly states to be ready to take over which I always am. I’m just helping the beta team in identifying these issues. I safely ensured that there was no one behind me when I allowed it to come to a complete stop and I pressed the camera icon to report it. I also emailed the FSD Beta team details of the multiple events at this location.

I now believe that there’s incorrect Nav data that’s causing this behavior since it never failed before until the NA-2021,44-13555 update. The cameras clearly see the road continues but it decides to slow down to a complete stop.

In your case, no it’s not correct to stop at a green light and I have never experienced this with the beta. In fact, stop signs and traffic lights perform flawlessly since I’ve been using it. Especially this newer build.

 

[Supcom]

I just purchased my first Tesla w/FSD last week. One of the first things I did was to activate AP on a city street. I expected it to behave like adaptive cruise control. One of its first actions was to slam on the breaks at a green light as we headed into the intersection. I thought I read where AP wasn't supposed to be used on city streets.

With FSD, AP will stop for all traffic control devices (stop signs and traffic lights) regardless of whether they are red, yellow or green. You will get a warning on the display as the car is approaching. You will need to use the accelerator or stalk to proceed without slowing/stopping.

Your manual should explain this.

 

[Luisito]

With FSD, AP will stop for all traffic control devices (stop signs and traffic lights) regardless of whether they are red, yellow or green. You will get a warning on the display as the car is approaching. You will need to use the accelerator or stalk to proceed without slowing/stopping.

Your manual should explain this.

This is correct. I’ve been driving beta for so long without having to confirm to continue.

 

[generalmilk]

On 10.12.2 I gain two imaginary stop signs in my neighborhood. They are both signs for pedestrian crossing. I assume it is error from vision perception, this is expected as it relies more on vision than map data. BTW, disengage and engage is unnecessary. Just press the accelerator

 

[ndallas1983]

Yeh I just got a 2021 Tesla, and it's Nov 2022 - We were pretty rattled after the car nearly caused a backend collision on a highway exit. It was yielding I think, but we were the ones to be yielded to. I took over - scary stuff.

Also happened while approaching an intersection. We had a green light, and a car turned (maybe 150 feet away at 40 MPH), it stopped at 100 feet from the green light intersection (and started making all kinds of noises / warnings).

I'm not complaining, I know what Beta means

It just shakes you up and whiplashes everyone when you're not expecting to stop, especially in a situation where it's unnecessary. The car had a good 3 more seconds until emergency action should have been taken, that being - someone decided to make an unprotected turn while you're moving forward.

Still a thing ! But I love my Tesla <3