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From Bearded Tesla Guy- new 82kwh batteries are in new MY

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We already knew that Model Y Performance had 82kw packs... but this is a LR. He doesn't mention it explicitly, but he shows a sticker with 19" rims, so it is definitely a LR. Produced May 21st.

my.jpg


I wouldn't be surprised if it's a partial/phased rollout - some current deliveries still have the 78kw battery pack. When buying a car, bringing a scanner and verifying it has the larger pack 82kw may be worth it if you really want that extra range?

Except...

Nominally FullWhen NewRange When (Nominally) Full
Old car68.9kw77.8kw289 miles
New car79.2kw82.1kw329 miles

Looking at the data of his 2 cars, it's interesting that the EPA rating is based on a nominally full battery, but he's only had his car a week and it's nominally full at 79.2kw... this is very close to the 77.8kw battery pack. Maybe the "When New" capacity is wrong?
 
The manufacture date is mm/yy, so that's May 2021, not necessarily May 21, 2021.

That makes sense.

I'm looking into the battery capacity a bit more:

Yep. That's exactly what we would expect. Most people see about 80.5-80.8kWh or so on SMT when the car is new. And SMT says 82.1kWh for "Full Pack When New." (This is an atypical discrepancy which applies to all 2021 Performance Model 3/Y and the reason is unknown.)

BeardedTeslaGuy's new battery is reading 79.2kw, a little low compared to 80.5 - but higher than the previous battery's 77.8kw "when new". If those numbers are correct, he should actually get the EPA rated range of the older model y :cool:
 
this is very close to the 77.8kWh battery pack. Maybe the "When New" capacity is wrong?

No, it's probably not wrong. The pack might well have a maximum possible capacity of 82.1kWh (this is a hard-coded value), but Tesla may be deliberately limiting the "nominal full pack" usable capacity (the only way I know of to tell is to look at voltages vs. SoC and compare closely to another vehicle with the older pack - you'd see a voltage limit on the high side (compare at 100%) OR the low side - say, compare at 2% capacity). But that's not the only possibility for what is going on here (more below).

BeardedTeslaGuy's new battery is reading 79.2kWh, a little low compared to 80.5 - but higher than the previous battery's 77.8kWh "when new". If those numbers are correct,

Yeah, this is quite common, and not surprising, you can see this thread (NOTE: most of these reports in the thread below are from Europe, and the situation with the packs in their Performance Model 3s may well be DIFFERENT than in the US. We do not know. It may be that US Model 3/Y Performance ALWAYS get packs with ~80.5-81.5kWh when new - we do not know.):


This video in the OP here doesn't give any of the relevant details, but I assume this car displays 326 rated miles when at 100%. (I assume it's an LR as mentioned above with the 19" wheels and whatever, based on the door jamb sticker.)

Anyway, the way this works is:

His vehicle won't show any rated mile loss until the capacity drops below ~77.8kWh (the energy content of each rated mile is inflated to about 79.2kWh/326rmi = 243Wh/rmi before then).

So this guy will see his original rated miles for a while. Even as he loses ~1.3kWh of capacity. At that point each rated mile will contain 77.8kWh/326rmi = 239Wh/rmi (and the line on the energy screen is at 244Wh/mi or so, of course, always 5Wh/mi higher than expected). And at that point, below what I call the "degradation threshold," that energy per rated mile "constant" becomes a constant forevermore (unless Tesla adjusts it which they rarely do (but they do sometimes do)).

Regarding why 82.1kWh packs don't show the full energy - again - it could be limited by Tesla, or they may be cherry-picking their 2170L packs which have lower capacity than designed, and putting them in the LRs. (And saving the better ones for the Performance.)

If they're artificially limiting them, there is a possibility (likelihood) in future that they will increase range of Model Y and Model 3 to be a higher value. If efficiency doesn't change, it would go to something like:

81kWh/239Wh/rmi = 339 rmi. (I'm using 81kWh here, but in the Model 3 Performance it is 80.6kWh - for some reason they're not going all the way to 82.1kWh yet - but they could in future if they're comfortable with it, and that would be consistent with what they have done in the past.)

It is entirely possible Tesla will wait a while until the new model year - whether it will apply retroactively to older vehicles with 82.1kWh packs I do not know - but those older vehicles will have lost some capacity by then and may not see much of a range increase. Tesla wants to keep "demand levers" available, and increasing rated range and capacity is one way to do that.

It all depends on whether Tesla actually CAN unlock capacity (implying they are currently limiting it), or whether these are just sub-par 2170L packs.

The rated miles that end up being displayed depends on Tesla's chosen constant in future. That doesn't really matter of course - it's the available energy that matters. It's possible that will be increased in future - or it may not be, for these mid-2021 Model Ys (and Model 3s).

No one knows, really. Tesla may adjust the degradation threshold (and unlock the pack concurrently, probably), and they may adjust the constant.

The resultant rated range displayed at 100% (assuming the pack is above the new threshold) will be:

Degradation threshold/constant = Rated Range @ 100% (Right now it's 77.8kWh/239Wh/rmi = 326rmi)

Again, current known degradation thresholds (within 0.1-0.2kWh) are:
Model 3 LR: ~77.8kWh
Model Y LR: ~77.8kWh
Model 3 Performance: ~80.6kWh.

We'll see how those change (and how available energy - nominal full pack - changes). Any changes to the official EPA range will eventually be available in the public domain at the iaspub EPA download area, and that will show energies which reflect (to some extent) any new thresholds. And of course the "miles" numbers will be on Tesla's website and at fueleconomy.gov but that is less interesting since it doesn't show the energy available (at this point we don't expect big jumps in efficiency, so the available energy is the key driver of range increases, for now, until we get carbon-sleeved rotors, haha).
 
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My Y charged up to 327 miles the other day.....
Yeah, the constant may be 238Wh/mi rather than 239Wh/mi (or somewhere in between), or the degradation threshold is not quite 77.8kWh.

In any case a combination of these two factors is conspiring to ensure that the division of those two numbers gives you a value greater than 326.5 rmi.

77.8kWh/238Wh/rmi = 326.9 rmi

But I wouldn't expect any higher than that to be displayed even if you had a couple kWh more than 77.8kWh (the miles just stretch/swell/expand (more energy) at that point).

It's not exactly a cap (the miles don't "pin" at that level for miles after you start driving) - it just expands the energy content of the miles, as far as we can tell, so they start ticking off right away as you start driving (albeit slightly more slowly (1-2% more slowly) than they will later in the vehicle's life). Above the degradation threshold, the miles start behaving like %, but with different units, haha.

In any case when you see a dropoff to ~325 miles or lower that's when you know you're below the degradation threshold of ~77.8kWh (assuming it's not freezing cold or there aren't other extenuating circumstances).
 
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My Y charged up to 327 miles the other day.....
I have a 183xxx May 21 build and mine shows 330 at full charge. I even saw 331 pop up briefly when I was testing out supercharging to 100% but it dropped back down to 330 and stayed there. I don't know what it would have gone to if I let it finish since I stopped supercharging manually before it stopped on it's own. I do know that when I charge to 100% at home it maxes out at 330 miles so I assume I probably have the bigger pack.
 
I have a 183xxx May 21 build and mine shows 330 at full charge. I even saw 331 pop up briefly when I was testing out supercharging to 100% but it dropped back down to 330 and stayed there. I don't know what it would have gone to if I let it finish since I stopped supercharging manually before it stopped on it's own. I do know that when I charge to 100% at home it maxes out at 330 miles so I assume I probably have the bigger pack.

That's interesting. Maybe they're handling it differently for Model Y than Model 3 (in other words, they aren't expanding the rated mile energy content, and instead are just adding rated miles). Any pictures? Would also be interesting to see the appropriate energy screen pictures for a situation like this to see how it calculates out.

(For Model 3 we have no reports of any display of more than 1 rated mile above the EPA quantity, even if energy far exceeds the threshold.)
 
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Thanks. This really is quite different than I've ever seen documented for Model 3 (maybe it exists but no one has posted a picture here). Would be interesting to see what people with SMT actually show concurrent with such a screen but can't have everything!

I'm curious what your energy screen looks like at a reasonably high SoC: (Capturing %, Projected Range, and Recent (Avg) Efficiency in one picture) Doesn't have to be done at 100%.

I would GUESS you have something like 331rmi*238.5Wh/rmi = 78.9kWh nominal full pack if you had SMT, but I'm just guessing.
 
Thanks. This really is quite different than I've ever seen documented for Model 3 (maybe it exists but no one has posted a picture here). Would be interesting to see what people with SMT actually show concurrent with such a screen but can't have everything!

I'm curious what your energy screen looks like at a reasonably high SoC: (Capturing %, Projected Range, and Recent (Avg) Efficiency in one picture) Doesn't have to be done at 100%.

I don't have any pictures right now but I can get one tomorrow.
 
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I don't have any pictures right now but I can get one tomorrow.
Awesome, for energy screen:
1) One in percentage mode.
2) One in rated miles mode.
3) Navigate to somewhere close (no need to go), swap to Trip screen, click the magnify icon in upper right, take another picture (to give precise percentage).

Shows 333 miles for a full charge

Here's another report from another thread - from a low SOC so it probably isn't that high (I thought it might be entirely that - though 333 is outside the range of what rounding error from 45% would cause, so...). But this new info you provided makes me think that vehicle may also be reporting a higher rated miles at 100% (maybe 331 or maybe even higher).

Maybe we could get data from it as well.

Anyway we'll see.
 
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