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From Love to Hate in one Roadtrip

Discussion in 'Model S' started by toolioiep, Jan 27, 2018.

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  1. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    #121 bonnie, Jan 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
    No one is saying that you shouldn't expect your new car to work. But if you get stranded, that expectation doesn't do you much good.

    Checking that different adapters and connectors work prior to your first road trip is just common sense if you are relying on those adapters or connectors. (And it sounds like the OP reasonably did this.) It's also common sense to make sure you have backup plans for any critical charging spot, in case that spot is out of service for some reason. That's why I check Plugshare reviews of different J1772s or CHAdeMO in the wild if I'm counting on them - I find out if those spots are working. Sure, I have a Blink | Chargepoint | AeroEV cards and I expect they meet their obligation by supplying a working EVSE. But guess what? Sometimes they don't.

    I expect my home electricity to work. I pay for it. But if the power goes out, my expectation isn't much help. That's why I have candles, a small camp stove in the closet w/fuel, and small solar panels for charging electronics (no generator atm, but a couple of neighbors do). Because my expectations don't keep the lights on when the power is out.

    As far as 'do people check these things out before needed?'. Yes, some of us do if it's a single point of failure. If I were going down in an old mine-shaft, unsure of air quality, I'd make sure that the self-rescuer I was relying on for clean air actually could supply clean air. Because sitting at the bottom of a mine shaft realizing you are out of oxygen and blaming the manufacturer you just bought it from isn't going to do you much good, is it?

    We have the luxury of years of gas stations being built up, so that's not necessary in an ICE. If one gas station is closed, we can stop at another. Or call AAA. But most of us do carry water, oil, and jumper cables in an ICE. Even though we should be able to expect our car to work.
     
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  2. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    That is one possibility and is likely to be the case.
    Tesla and the vendor most likely know the root cause at this stage, but you don't rule out anything automatically.
    It might be hard to check, but if there is a P/N revision change on the port interface, it was normally problem with tolerancing the plastic parts.
    Plastic parts have taper on them called 'draft', which is necessary for most manufacturing to allow the parts to eject from the mold. Normal draft will create a minus material condition at interface areas. But it's a common mistake to incorrectly dimension parts with draft so that at maximum material condition allowed by the drawing can create an interference fit due to draft.

    ie - Plastic parts can be 'in print' and either fit or not fit depending on the draft. These could pass inspection. You'd change the drawing as corrective action. Either tighten up the draft allowed, or allow a looser fitment.
     
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  3. clostridium

    clostridium Supporting Member

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    #123 clostridium, Jan 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
    Hmm. I sort of felt like the following statement made it clear I wasn't blaming the OP, wasn't protecting Tesla, and wasn't downplaying the issue. It's possible to suggest a preflight as a good practice while not blaming the OP for what happened:

    "I don't fault the OP for not doing this though because a newly delivered car should have already had testing by the manufacturer on something as basic as whether supercharging works. And if they screwed up but then found out about issues in some delivered cars on something so critical you'd think they'd actively contact people BEFORE they had problems (to my knowledge that didn't happen but chime in if any of you were contacted) and offer to test their car.

    I hope that Tesla has learned something from this and is adding this in to the predelivery checklist now to be completed at the factory or at the SC before a customer gets the car."
     
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  4. realvvk

    realvvk Member

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    Yes, just make sure in is off when you charge in very cold weather. Because the car will not charge overnight with the range mode on if it is cold enough. For short trips it does concerve electricity.
     
  5. NewTMSMan

    NewTMSMan Member

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    Yes and I am sure you never generally head in the direction of the supercharger for any reason in a normal week further cutting down on the inconvenience trying out supercharging before taking a road trip would have imposed.

    In any case advice stands for any new owner, try out everything you can before taking an extended road trip including, super charging. Much easier to manage issues when they happen close to home and are not urgent than during a trip.

    Again just advice, and this absolutely should not have happened and is completely Tesla’s fault, but Elon is not the one who ends up stuck somewhere when it does happen.
     
  6. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    No disagreement with your sentiment here. Just trying to give some potential explanation regarding
    .Maybe it's the difference between the advice itself, and the expectation that they should have known to do it. It is a good idea to do the verification, but not a natural one for most. For those less familiar with Tesla potential issues, the idea that supercharging wouldn't work doesn't cross their minds (either on the car side or the SC side). I was a diver back in the day, so I do understand verifying equipment: primary reg: check, secondary reg: check. I also know that I live too far from the people I visit to take a Tesla comfortably reliably in winter.
     
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  7. SMAlset

    SMAlset Active Member

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    When previous threads I read mentioned this issue and that a quick initial fix for some SvCs was to dremmel the port hole to get it to fit and work, I thought "tolerance issue" since it's not a new product item. I've encountered tolerance issues on a few other products, but thankfully not many. Also thought Tesla once they knew the problem should have reached out to notify owners of those cars that there might be a problem and what to do. Stuff like this happens and it gets caught and corrected. Taking care of your customer needs be top priority when it happens along with investigating the issue.

    While many people may not Supercharge in their daily travels, eventually if you travel any distance you will, so from that standpoint I do consider the charge port a critical part of one's car. This could have been worse: for example a woman traveling alone or with her kids and stranded somewhere alone on the road.

    For those that don't read through all the pages, OP did get his charge finally at a Supercharger and made it home ( From Love to Hate in one Roadtrip ). Thanks for the update, @toolioiep, and glad to see that happened. Given this was a brand new owner, their first long distance trip, and it caused the family quite a bit of distress and inconvenience in the rain along with the owner missing a business flight connection, I only hope that someone at the right level at Tesla really understands what some owners have had to go through and really work to improve how situations like this are handled. I think that more than anything this is what everyone here probably agrees should happen.
     
  8. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    I think this one hits the nail on the head.

    The advice to check Supercharging functionality is good (or at least check DC charging in general), but it is also true it doesn't come naturally to people, let alone so soon after delivery.

    So it isn't that it is not good advice, it is. It just shouldn't be made to sound like OP should have done that/known that/was somehow responsible for not doing it. I don't think that flies, in this case. I guess some felt there was a feeling of that somewhere in this thread, hence the protestations. :)

    But it is good advice. Your message there is very good as is @bonnie's above.
     
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  9. mkspeedr

    mkspeedr Member

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    Sounds like a rough trip.

    I get harassed for the opposite. Before our first road trip - I tested 4 different superchargers (we are lucky) to compare charging speeds. I bought 3 adapters and $200 extension cord. Then I searched for a folding aluminum picnic table that would fit in the back bottom storage in case we wanted to eat while we were charging (I wont let people eat in my cars). I bought a emergency slime tire inflator and emergency kit.

    3 years later we have not used anything - not even the picnic table. I get in trouble for over complicating things.
     
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  10. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 90D 2018.26

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    A week after I picked up my S90D in December 2016, we took it on a 230+ mile round-trip road trip scouting for a potential Supercharger around Fort Morgan/Brush, Colorado. I'll admit that I did not confirm my car could Supercharge before the trip but since there were no known Superchargers along I-76 at the time, it wouldn't have done me any good. On the first scouting trip, we found an unlisted J1772 at a hotel and added it to Plugshare. On the way back, I had enough battery left to make it home but took a slight detour to the Supercharger close to DIA and confirmed I was able to charge successfully. A couple weeks later, we made the same trip and we found the Supercharger under construction in Brush. It wasn't open yet but I knew I had enough range to make it back home without needing to Supercharge. The following week, I did an 1100 mile road trip and felt confident I wouldn't have any problems supercharging. A few days later, we did another trip to Brush and were the first to charge at the newly opened (yet still unannounced) Supercharger. We then headed to Loveland for an unofficial ribbon-cutting at the new Supercharger there.

    I did the same before my first long road trip. I had 5 different adapters and a combo 14-30/14-50 extension cord. Since then, I've sold all of the extra adapters and acquired one of the official 6-50 adapters once Tesla started offering it again.

    With that being said, we took delivery of an S75D in December 2017. Last Tuesday, we decided to stop and Supercharge before dropping Scott off at the airport since we had heard of the "charger-gate" issue. As expected, we got the orange ring when we first plugged in. At first, I was a little concerned since Scott had an international flight to catch. We had enough range to get him to the airport but I didn't know if I would be able to get home without charging somewhere since we live about 45 miles from the airport. Fortunately, we were able to remove the plug and on the second attempt we were able to charge without problems. We added about 15 miles just to confirm things worked and then I was able to make it home without worry. We will be taking the S75D in to have the charge port shaved or replaced in the coming weeks.
     
  11. Joe F

    Joe F FUD Buster

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    S90D delivered Dec '16 as well. Went out of our way in Jan '17 to go to a restaurant in NJ just to test supercharging. Being new to Tesla, I needed to ensure I could rely on knowing how to verify the car was charging fast enough to not have to worry about overly long charge times, and just to make sure everything worked as it should. The car at this point was only a few weeks old.

    Charging did not go well. I know now it was due to an initial higher state of charge, and being cold soaked after sitting a few hours in cold and rainy weather. But I didn't appreciate that then.

    Following week another hour long trip to a charger in Allentown PA to test things again, only this time armed with more insight thanks to the accumulated knowledge of the good folks on TMC, and had no problems at all.

    This was all done before a planned 550 round trip to Richmond, VA. I did not want to be over 200 miles from home only to find out I either didn't know what to expect, or more importantly, that there was nothing wrong with the car that it wouldn't accept a charge at higher rates.

    It had nothing to do with the MS being new and should work as designed, it was more to do with my comfort level that it actually did. Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared" I suppose, even though I've never been a Boy Scout.
     
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  12. Hornedfrog1

    Hornedfrog1 Member

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    Glad you’re back safely.
     
  13. Brian-MS90D

    Brian-MS90D Member

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    @whitex , my point regarding the distance is that - just like your hyperbole - your need to understate the distance by such an amount is revealing to the lack of merit to your argument.

    My point in a nutshell since it has struck a nerve with so many people on this thread is that some hold Tesla to an unreasonable standard. I have had brand new ICE vehicles break down (for example, electrical connector came loose and car would only go 5 mph in limp mode). I get a tow truck and a rental and am on my way. I don't hate the car company. If I'm in the middle of nowhere that's not a result of the car company, it's a result of where I am and the lack of timely tow service is true whether ICE or electric.

    Not sure why the OP chose to suffer so much pain. I would have promptly had the car towed, rental delivered, and have been on my way.

    The OP even came back and moderated his subject line word selection (i.e., hate). I think this also supports my point.
     
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  14. lotusland

    lotusland Member

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    You are proving my point with this quote. This is not an unreasonable standard. Tesla knew about this problem and delivered a car without checking if it had the known problem. That should never happen. Some here are arguing that Tesla could not check this since there are no superchargers at the service centers. You really do not see a problem with that? Tesla knows there is a problem with connector tolerance and yet the service centers do not have a mating connector to test with? That is simply absurd. Of course they should be able to test this and of course they should be checking it before delivery.

    And for you guys suggesting dremel correction, can any of you imagine picking up a $140k Audi or Mercedes and having a service tech work on it with a dremel tool right before you take delivery? Or worse, right after you take delivery? That is not acceptable. Guys Tesla is not going to survive if they cannot function properly as an automotive company. Don't defend bad behavior.

     
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  15. mkspeedr

    mkspeedr Member

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    I know it happens a lot. Suppliers make a batch of parts a little different and sometimes the tolerances are enough to cause issues. Impossible to catch all the problems.

    I had 96 Suzuki GSXR 750 - my serial number was the last number in the range of vehicles recalled for pistons hitting valves.
    I have a letter from BMW stating don't drive my M3 due to "catastrophic engine failure"
    I have a Ducati 1299S being recalled for a Brembo brake issue.
    I think I have a list of a dozen plus vehicles like this...

    Airbags, brakes, engines - the list of supplier problems is long. Tesla is not the first - it wont be the last.
     
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  16. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    I think the disconnect is that the most people would assume that a new car that was delivered days earlier has been inspected by the car company to be fit for a trip and should not require any maintenance for some reasonable time.
     
  17. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    Exactly. Tesla should have towed the car and delivered a rental. Unless you think that is the unreasonable standard that people hold a manufacturer of $100K+ car to.
     
  18. jjanov79

    jjanov79 Member

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    E0FD7B2B-A5DA-49DB-8A3C-5D50F6DFCEED.jpeg FEE35928-86CB-4FA6-998C-A73B4F4FBD42.jpeg There is an extremely simple fix to this and it has nothing to do with when the car was built (mine was built in May 2017) or the fact that it was a supercharger. I had owned my car for several months and charged it at home without a single issue. For added convenience I installed a Tesla wall charger at my office. Upon plugging it in the first time I got the orange ring and an alert on the dash. I unplugged and back in a few dozen times and still the orange ring. I plugged it in with more force and less force.... still the orange ring. I scoured the TMC forums and there was no obvious solution. I did a Google search and after reading through 6 or 8 threads on the Tesla forum I finally found someone with the same problem and someone who suggested the solution that worked. I couldn’t believe it was so ridiculously simple... and it works every.... single.... time.

    If you plug in the charger and you get the orange ring all that needs to be done is push down on the “heel” of the charger with moderate force and you’ll hear and feel a “click” after which the ring turns green.
     
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  19. Brian-MS90D

    Brian-MS90D Member

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    Yeah, for some reason the OP didn't want that. At least you and I agree on one thing.
     
  20. Swift

    Swift Member

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    I think the OP was quite reasonable in both his expectations and his frustration.

    The OP's vehicle was charged at the Service Center upon delivery. He could plug into a HPWC. He could use the mobile connector. No issues with any of those. He made a valid assumption that when he was on the road the SC would connect the same.

    An ICE analogy might be: My new car was fueled at the dealership. The nozzle fit. No issue there. I filled up in my town. The nozzle fit. No issues there either. I traveled to the next state where another gas station brand dominates the highways and their nozzles are just a bit bigger than my defectively sized gas fill. I have to scramble to find alternatives while worrying about running out of gas. My fault for not traveling to that state or checking the other state/gas station company before I make my road trip?

    If that’s the case, I should also be testing the gear interlock override, the emergency trunk release, the fob bypass, etc, etc, in that car. But who honestly does/would do all that?

    The real issue is that Tesla knew the OP’s car was likely impacted by the defect and should have gotten ahead of it. Maybe they were banking on him being one of the many consumers that would never use supercharging. When the OP did get stuck as a result, they - knowing the issue was out there and that they weren’t proactive about it - should have taken much better care of him.
     
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