In the rumored interior sketch ups the speedo is still behind the wheel it is just much smaller.
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From Models S to Model 3...Wow these cars are different!
- Thread starter Aieukl378
- Start date
In the rumored interior sketch ups the speedo is still behind the wheel it is just much smaller.
So, I'm a newb and still trying to research stuff so sorry that I didn't find this yet. Everyone is speaking of the new tech in the M3. What major new tech is in the M3 that is not in a current (being built as we speak) MS? I guess ignoring the whole "which screen design is better" argument. Isn't the AP hardware essentially the same? Isn't the battery and charging tech essentially the same? Are the motors significantly different?
We ordered an S100D (due end of Sept). The difference from 75D as far as I can tell was more batteries and improved charging with one more 24amp charger (totaling 72amp over three chargers) for faster charging. That'll be nice I think, but won't have dramatic affect on me since I will be charging at home most of the time hopefully. Sounds nice that on cold/hot days you can charge at places and still have decent amps going through since the "loss of amps" to battery temp control and HVAC has less impact. I know that might not be exactly correct, but how I sort it out in my head.
Anyway, I'm hoping that "driving/handling" difference aside, both S/X/3 have similar real technology in batteries, motors, AP/FSD, but sounds like that is not really the case. That's my biggest concern. I'm assuming AP will be similar among all current model year vehicles... taking out the vehicle differences like weight and other handling characteristics. The tech would be the same.
But I'm a newb who hasn't even taken receipt of the MS yet, so pretty ignorant on these things.
Chris
We ordered an S100D (due end of Sept). The difference from 75D as far as I can tell was more batteries and improved charging with one more 24amp charger (totaling 72amp over three chargers) for faster charging. That'll be nice I think, but won't have dramatic affect on me since I will be charging at home most of the time hopefully. Sounds nice that on cold/hot days you can charge at places and still have decent amps going through since the "loss of amps" to battery temp control and HVAC has less impact. I know that might not be exactly correct, but how I sort it out in my head.
Anyway, I'm hoping that "driving/handling" difference aside, both S/X/3 have similar real technology in batteries, motors, AP/FSD, but sounds like that is not really the case. That's my biggest concern. I'm assuming AP will be similar among all current model year vehicles... taking out the vehicle differences like weight and other handling characteristics. The tech would be the same.
But I'm a newb who hasn't even taken receipt of the MS yet, so pretty ignorant on these things.
Chris
As the MCU difference has been resolved the biggest difference in tech between the S and the 3 is the 3 uses 2170 battery cells vs the S and X still use 18650. Although nobody know for sure speculation is the 2170s will be able to charge up to 180kW where the 18650s seem to top out at 120kW on the 100kWh pack. Also the 2170s are more energy dense than the 18650s. The 3 has a Permanent Magnet Switched Reluctance Motor for the rear which in general is more efficient than an induction motor. I'm sure others will chime in with more detail.
wbhokie
Member
I was just typing all of this!
Also the Steering wheel (although non-heated) uses multi-directional selectors vs wheels. Vent system is new. I believe the 3 uses different Regen braking modes as well. Key system is different, though I think most people prefer having a FOB. Better spaced cup-holders that you don't have to give up armrests to use. In general a lot of little things are "newer". The Model S and X are due for a refresh.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Chris asks a good question ("what is the great new tech in the 3?"). I too have seen several people rave about how the 3 is "new" and the S is "old". I am happy to hear examples, but I have a 3 and an S and it seems to me that most of the stuff is either the same, or just making a different trade-off. There are a few things that are better (door pockets, coat hooks), but they seem pretty minor in the overall scheme of what you look at to make buying decisions - and there are plenty of features that go the other way (I listed a bunch of them upthread).
First off, a 2018 S is VERY different than a 2012 S - and in some pretty major ways. We had a 2012 for years and loved it, but we also have newer cars and the differences are obvious. Tesla has been making updates constantly. So calling the S a "6-year-old car" is insufficient to explain the differences.
When it first came out, the 3 did have a notably faster computer. But then they updated it in the S, so that is no longer different (as SigNC noted).
The 3 uses different battery cells. They are a newer design, so some claim they are superior. However, their primary design criteria was a lower price. While they might happen to be better in every respect (longevity, charging speed, temperature sensitivity, max discharge, voltage sag, etc) in addition to being cheaper, I suspect that is not really the case. There has been some promising analysis so far, but there is still much we don't know about them.
The 3 uses different motors. They are a newer design, so some claim they are superior. However, their primary design criteria was better efficiency (to reduce cost of battery required to meet range goals). For some, that is better. But for a lot of Model S owners...well, they are probably more concerned with performance and reliability. Maybe the 3 motor will be at least as good in every other respect...but again, I suspect that is not the case.
Don't get me wrong - I think the 3 is a great car, and in fact I'm replacing my S with one. (Although note that in my case my wife has an X, so most of the S advantages I can still have by borrowing her car). Given the enormous price difference, it is obvious that most buyers will go the same way - I agree that the 3 is a better value than the S. But I think calling the 3 a better car, or even just saying it has better tech because it is newer, doesn't seem justified.
[When I say "better" (unqualified by "value"), I mean in general - not as applied to a specific situation, which varies so much as to be useless for somebody else. When talking about an individual's specific situation I use the wording "better for me". For example, the 3 is better for me given that my wife has an X. However, if my car was our only Tesla, the S would be a better choice for me. "Better" is a complicated word, especially when there are inherent trade-offs to some features like size - it's better when you are putting stuff in it, and worse when you are washing and parking it.]
First off, a 2018 S is VERY different than a 2012 S - and in some pretty major ways. We had a 2012 for years and loved it, but we also have newer cars and the differences are obvious. Tesla has been making updates constantly. So calling the S a "6-year-old car" is insufficient to explain the differences.
When it first came out, the 3 did have a notably faster computer. But then they updated it in the S, so that is no longer different (as SigNC noted).
The 3 uses different battery cells. They are a newer design, so some claim they are superior. However, their primary design criteria was a lower price. While they might happen to be better in every respect (longevity, charging speed, temperature sensitivity, max discharge, voltage sag, etc) in addition to being cheaper, I suspect that is not really the case. There has been some promising analysis so far, but there is still much we don't know about them.
The 3 uses different motors. They are a newer design, so some claim they are superior. However, their primary design criteria was better efficiency (to reduce cost of battery required to meet range goals). For some, that is better. But for a lot of Model S owners...well, they are probably more concerned with performance and reliability. Maybe the 3 motor will be at least as good in every other respect...but again, I suspect that is not the case.
Don't get me wrong - I think the 3 is a great car, and in fact I'm replacing my S with one. (Although note that in my case my wife has an X, so most of the S advantages I can still have by borrowing her car). Given the enormous price difference, it is obvious that most buyers will go the same way - I agree that the 3 is a better value than the S. But I think calling the 3 a better car, or even just saying it has better tech because it is newer, doesn't seem justified.
[When I say "better" (unqualified by "value"), I mean in general - not as applied to a specific situation, which varies so much as to be useless for somebody else. When talking about an individual's specific situation I use the wording "better for me". For example, the 3 is better for me given that my wife has an X. However, if my car was our only Tesla, the S would be a better choice for me. "Better" is a complicated word, especially when there are inherent trade-offs to some features like size - it's better when you are putting stuff in it, and worse when you are washing and parking it.]
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wbhokie
Member
A lot of people are using "newer" and not necessarily "better" when they are using the tech argument. The title of this thread is the best description. Wow, they are different! Yes, they are!
I still have a pre-nose refresh Model S, and I still love it. I still think it is a great looking car, I still love how it drives. But it is a lease, and the lease is ending. I use my Tesla as a commuter car.... almost exclusively. There are the occasional trips I make to lowes or home depot where the room in the model S is VERY nice. And it has a LOT of room!!! I will miss the hatchback and the heated steering wheel a lot. But when it came down to it, the model 3 was just a much better value. So I agree with you Chad.
I honestly can't wait to see the Model S and Model X get their interior Refresh. They have been unloved by Elon for a while and need some attention since they are great cars.
I still have a pre-nose refresh Model S, and I still love it. I still think it is a great looking car, I still love how it drives. But it is a lease, and the lease is ending. I use my Tesla as a commuter car.... almost exclusively. There are the occasional trips I make to lowes or home depot where the room in the model S is VERY nice. And it has a LOT of room!!! I will miss the hatchback and the heated steering wheel a lot. But when it came down to it, the model 3 was just a much better value. So I agree with you Chad.
I honestly can't wait to see the Model S and Model X get their interior Refresh. They have been unloved by Elon for a while and need some attention since they are great cars.
"Better" is a relative term. And both "better" and "best" are subjective judgements. I have owned the "best" car on the road ever since I got rid of the crappy Jeep and got my '89 Civic. "Best" for me, that is, judging by my own personal criteria, because I've always done my research and bought the car that best fit my needs and preferences. (Except for the Jeep, where I made a poor choice because I was young and inexperienced.)
The Civic was the right size for me and was reliable and efficient. The Prius had the tech I wanted and was reliable, clean, and efficient. The Zap Xebra was all electric and was pretty much the only EV available at the time. The Roadster was, well, the Roadster. And the Model 3 is electric and has EAP without being a humongous road yacht. Right now the Model 3 is the best car on the road. For me.
The Civic was the right size for me and was reliable and efficient. The Prius had the tech I wanted and was reliable, clean, and efficient. The Zap Xebra was all electric and was pretty much the only EV available at the time. The Roadster was, well, the Roadster. And the Model 3 is electric and has EAP without being a humongous road yacht. Right now the Model 3 is the best car on the road. For me.
CrazyCoconut
Member
Size and acceleration are the most important factors for me. Ideally I would have liked the acceleration of a P100DL in a package that is a bit smaller than the Model 3. My R8 at 175" feels perfect (3 is 185" and S is 196"). Since I can't have everything, I think a P3D is the best compromise of all of my wants.
Thanks for the education. Very helpful. As for the size difference, I drive a pickup as my daily driving vehicle, so the S seems very small to me
Chris
Chris
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
I like big cars an’ I can not lie. Of course people that like smaller cars are going to prefer the 3. I don’t like spending money so the 3 is what I prefer. I think the S is the better built car, though. If you like big cars it’s a great car. I think most SUV, mini van, and pickup drivers would think the S was too small.
I just got rid of my 2016 MS75(which I loved utterly) and switched to the 3(not because it was better tech etc...other reasons). On my S I actually liked the old school AP1 better than the current "new tech" AP2(I know this will get better over time). Everything in the S works great and I'm definitely of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" opinion. Believe me you are going to love your 100D!
Msjulie
Active Member
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
My May 2014 build car also has the split rear seat and it is more than four years old. The split rear seat has been standard on the Model S for a long time.
My car has only one option, the tech package of the day: navigation, parking sensors, powered liftgate, folding mirrors, memory seats (seats, steering wheel and mirror position for each driver); so I presume that those weren't standard on the earliest models. I also have Homelink but don't know if it was standard. I don't much care about the folding mirrors but use and appreciate all the rest. Numerous improvements have been added via firmware updates, as seems to be the case with all Teslas. For example: easy entry, camper mode, huge navigation/energy use projection improvement, Homelink improvements.
As others have pointed out, the Model S has come a long way since the early days. It isn't quite as primitive and obsolete as some seem to think.
ceekz
Member
This is just slightly off topic along the lines of comparison: I recently checked out a friend's car, a new Audi A8L. The cost must be related to the number of buttons - too many to count on the door panels, center console, overhead console AND the pop-up touch screen. (Seriously, this car has seat massage, rear window screens, moonroof panel and screens, entertainment- you name it.) Compare that to a single user interface and a couple of multi-function buttons on the steering wheel of the 3. I know what direction of technology I'd rather move toward.
In retrospect, I'm guessing there was some miscommunication here. I'm guessing the original statement was something like "the middle seat on the Model X wasn't foldable initially", and the words (and meaning) got morphed like in the telephone game.
I had an AWD Model 3 on order, and cancelled it for a great deal 2015 CPO Model S 85D with 18K miles a few weeks ago. They messed up my pickup in Tempe (I live in Denver) after my trade in was complete, and I was able to get a Performance Model 3 as a loaner for a week (still have it). Such a great car for what it is....insane acceleration, great feel, so much fun...totally worth the price tag. I'm still glad I opted for the S for size reasons with a young family, but man is this car fun.
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