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From NY to Dubai P85D
- Thread starter Fares Almazrooei
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- Model S
Ames
Member
Still waiting for an exact delivery date. "Late July" is what I am going on right now. I have asked my DS for an update and she says she will contact me as soon as the car is on the boat from NY. I will ask for the upgrade but I doubt I'll be able to get, and I'm not that bothered.
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The US spec UMC is designed for 120VAC and 240VAC which are the two voltages available here. So, running 230VAC through it will be no problem as long as you put it on the correct pins. Also, make sure you use the correct adapter for the current which your circuit can deliver. Tesla makes adapters for 15A, 20A, 30A, 50A circuits. The adapter signals the UMC its rating so that it won't allow the car to pull more current than it should.
yes but that is 120 V through each hot wire. if I were to use a US Spec UMC overseas I would be pushing 230 V through one hot leg and neutral through the other.
my question is.. is this acceptable? it is (nearly) double the Voltage each leg would get if I were using it in the USA.
Ames
Member
Tesla has responded. The car will be ready for transport from Tilburg July 29th; "This means that your car is almost in Tilburg and at this point it is not possible to get the 90kWh upgrade. In the future Tesla might offer this possibility but we have not had any information about this yet."
Now I have a new problem; I have been asked to pay an extra 19,500 Euros of Tax. All my invoices were just updated. They say it is because they have been have been forced to pay the tax themselves due to some other individuals not providing needed documentation to release Tesla. The trouble is, where am I going to find an extra 19,500 Euros in 4 days?
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You are right. You would have 230V above ground on one pin while in USA, 240V is only 120V above ground. Sorry, I don't know enough details to tell you whether what you propose is safe or not.
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If you ordered the car for export and the original deal was that you would be able to take delivery without paying EU VAT, then I would refuse to take delivery until the paperwork can be sorted out. Once you provide the required paperwork they should be able to get the VAT exemption on an individual case basis. Just because they did not do paperwork properly in the past, that's no reason to punish you for it. What they're doing is just lazy. Emphasize that you still want the car, but paying EU VAT is simply not acceptable for a vehicle that will not be operated there. Now, if you were planning to do something like driving it to Italy to put it on a ship, then you have a problem. That is an expensive holiday tour.
Tesla has the same problem with California state taxes. If you want to take delivery at the factory, you have to pay California state sales tax. However, if you take delivery in another nearby state that offers temporary registration and no sales tax, then you could drive it on holiday back to your home state from there. If you buy from a California car dealer, but have it picked up by a auto transportation company and trailered out of state, then you don't have to pay tax. If you operate the vehicle in-state at all, no matter how short the duration, you owe the whole tax. The tax they're talking about in Tilburg may be similar.
Ames
Member
Thanks for the tip. It all seems very unreasonable especially given that I will not even be allowed to drive the car; it will only be handed over to a shipping agent. I wrote to them simply stating that I cannot afford it. Let's see what happens.
Alex
Sorry to hear this. Next time, to avoid paying sales tax upfront I suggest buying in Norway if you want a Model S in a country that Tesla Motor does not sell directly to.
Norway is not a EU member and we don't have tax/VAT on electric cars here yet, taxes will probably start in 2017.
Another possible advantage is faster shipment since cars shipped to Norway does not need to go through Tilburg.
Norway is not a EU member and we don't have tax/VAT on electric cars here yet, taxes will probably start in 2017.
Another possible advantage is faster shipment since cars shipped to Norway does not need to go through Tilburg.
Ames
Member
Thanks Imore. Another good tip. Some of my friends here in the UAE may take that route.
ATC@LWSK
Member
Alex,
Any update on your situation? I still don't get it why you have to pay VAT, when you're exporting the vehicle outside of EU. If for some reason you must pay it, I presume you'd be eligible for a refund?
Good luck!!
Ames
Member
Hi Jordan,
My DS has his colleague contacting the Tax Authority in Holland to see what they can do to help. My fingers are crossed.
Alex
Ames
Member
@Namervio Thank you, that is very kind. I'll give Tesla a chance to sort this out. Right now it is possible that there is confusion on the part of the DS. I ordered via "Other Europe" (as per Tesla's recommendation). My DS sent me the link below for VAT refund, this requires me to be an Entrepreneur and have some sort of registration with the Tax authority in my own country. I can provide neither of these. I think in my situation I should be providing proof of export to the Middle East and since no tax is due to anybody both myself and Tesla will be exempt. If I understand it correctly, Tesla gets into trouble when these cars are exported to other EU countries where tax is applicable (and Tesla does not have an entity there), and these owners did not provide proof that they have paid the tax in their own countries, and as such the Dutch government then demands tax.
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontenten/belastingdienst/business/vat/vat_in_the_netherlands/claiming_refund_of_vat/claiming_refund_of_vat_for_entrepreneurs_f
Alex.
Ames
Member
Here is Tesla's reply:
I have talked to the Dutch Tax Department and with my colleague from Finance and Accounting. The conclusion is that you will have to pay Dutch VAT in order to receive your Model S and if you want to have the VAT back you need a company registration for this, see below link from the Dutch Government. I am sorry but if you want your Model S to an Non-Eu country then this is the way we can offer.
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontenten/belastingdienst/business/vat/vat_in_the_netherlands/claiming_refund_of_vat/claiming_refund_of_vat_for_entrepreneurs_from_non-eu_countries
Do not hesitate to call me or reply on my email if you have any questions,
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I will call the tax department in Holland on Monday and see if I can get an assurance they will give my a company ID (I sent my application by courier a few days back) and that they will refund the VAT on proof of export. If I am confident a refund will be given then I will proceed.
Alex
I have talked to the Dutch Tax Department and with my colleague from Finance and Accounting. The conclusion is that you will have to pay Dutch VAT in order to receive your Model S and if you want to have the VAT back you need a company registration for this, see below link from the Dutch Government. I am sorry but if you want your Model S to an Non-Eu country then this is the way we can offer.
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontenten/belastingdienst/business/vat/vat_in_the_netherlands/claiming_refund_of_vat/claiming_refund_of_vat_for_entrepreneurs_from_non-eu_countries
Do not hesitate to call me or reply on my email if you have any questions,
--------------
I will call the tax department in Holland on Monday and see if I can get an assurance they will give my a company ID (I sent my application by courier a few days back) and that they will refund the VAT on proof of export. If I am confident a refund will be given then I will proceed.
Alex
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Ames
Member
It's over.
I tried to convince Tesla to retain the VAT and refund it to me once they have the necessary documents. I spoke to my DS this morning; Tesla does not currently have a procedure for retaining the Tax and refunding it. They will let me know if things change in the future. Tesla will be refunding my deposit in full.
Hint: there is a fully loaded Black 85d with all options incl. executive rear seats (rare) going into inventory at Tilburg with 0 miles.
So in conclusion things have changed regarding VAT. Do not order from "Other Europe" with the intention to export the car from Holland unless you are willing to pay Dutch VAT @ 21%.
Alex
I tried to convince Tesla to retain the VAT and refund it to me once they have the necessary documents. I spoke to my DS this morning; Tesla does not currently have a procedure for retaining the Tax and refunding it. They will let me know if things change in the future. Tesla will be refunding my deposit in full.
Hint: there is a fully loaded Black 85d with all options incl. executive rear seats (rare) going into inventory at Tilburg with 0 miles.
So in conclusion things have changed regarding VAT. Do not order from "Other Europe" with the intention to export the car from Holland unless you are willing to pay Dutch VAT @ 21%.
Alex
mikes_fsd
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BoldSharpe
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