From TM Forum "Winner From North America For First Referral Program Turned Down P90D"

[3mp_kwh]

This thread suggests the Tesla raffle, http://climate-xchange.org/event/carbon-pricing-awareness-raffle/ may offer a nice prize, since the taxes are paid for the winner. Shameless plug, I know, but it is going to make somebody's New Year's Eve a big hit.

Tesla sucks at any kind of business decision, even no brainer ones. This is nothing new. What's worse is that they do not learn from these mistakes.

C'mon. They learn from their mistakes. It just different lessons, from different transactions. And maybe a lot of lessons.

 

[drsaab]

From TM Forum "Winner From North America For First Referral Program Turned Do...

I don't think anyone should be saying anything about what someone can or can't afford. Only he lives his life and can make those calls, nobody else. Just because he bought what he bought doesn't mean he could have spent 40%-50% more for something else. For some people, the Model S is a huge stretch, take out loans, and they're super-lucky to get one, and for others, it's a drop in the bucket and upgrade to the next best thing at every turn. And a lot of people between those extremes.

He had said he paid the $96k 70d model in full outright. He did not want to spend 30k for the p90d. Not that he couldn't afford it.

He also said Tesla told him he was not eligible for the 7500 credit in this new transaction.

 

[tomas]

Sure. But that confusion was just the backstory, and it was settled prior to the prizewinner rationally deciding to decline the prize (and us learning about it).

The crux of the matter was that the prize turned out to be not much of a prize... and now presumably is a prize again

that's your assumption. It's also possible the winner realized they misunderstood and pulled back out of embarrassment. It was not a 30k tax liability, that was an incorrect perception, and the winner was not rational, but incorrect. The winner got a great goodie bag of powerwall, gigaplant tour, and a great trade deal on p90dl. If tesla sweetened the pot beyond what they published, they are generous.

 

[drsaab]

that's your assumption. It's also possible the winner realized they misunderstood and pulled back out of embarrassment. It was not a 30k tax liability, that was an incorrect perception, and the winner was not rational, but incorrect. The winner got a great goodie bag of powerwall, gigaplant tour, and a great trade deal on p90dl. If tesla sweetened the pot beyond what they published, they are generous.

No the winner was 2 days away from picking up the new car and that is when tesla gave him the final numbers and he posted in tm.

No confusion per the winner. And the numbers added up with what figures were presented on trade and tax matters etc.

 

[tomas]

He had said he paid the $96k 70d model in full outright. He did not want to spend 30k for the p90d. Not that he couldn't afford it.

He also said Tesla told him he was not eligible for the 7500 credit in this new transaction.

he should have consulted his tax advisor. I ran this past mine and he confirmed that winner could adjust tesla's 1099 if he had justification, and would also be justified in claiming tax credit of 7,500.

 

[drsaab]

he should have consulted his tax advisor. I ran this past mine and he confirmed that winner could adjust tesla's 1099 if he had justification, and would also be justified in claiming tax credit of 7,500.

I would assume tesla was titling the car to themselves first so that made him ineligible for the 7500? Not sure why but he said it clearly that tesla told him he is not eligible.

 

[tomas]

No the winner was 2 days away from picking up the new car and that is when tesla gave him the final numbers and he posted in tm.

No confusion per the winner. And the numbers added up with what figures were presented on trade and tax matters etc.

read what I've written. I wouldn't let tesla figure my taxes.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I've really been trying very hard to stop responding to this thread, but...

No the winner was 2 days away from picking up the new car and that is when tesla gave him the final numbers and he posted in tm.

No confusion per the winner. And the numbers added up with what figures were presented on trade and tax matters etc.

If there was no confusion per the winner, he would have known those tax numbers well in advance. What surprised him, and what caused him to back out of the deal and make that post on TM, was that he wasn't being renumerated for his 70D, which he was counting on to pay his taxes on the new car. It's all there in my detailed post #35.

 

[drsaab]

From TM Forum "Winner From North America For First Referral Program Turned Do...

I've really been trying very hard to stop responding to this thread, but...



If there was no confusion per the winner, he would have known those tax numbers well in advance. What surprised him, and what caused him to back out of the deal and make that post on TM, was that he wasn't being renumerated for his 70D, which he was counting on to pay his taxes on the new car. It's all there in my detailed post #35.

What I was saying is by the time he posted there was no confusion on the numbers. He got the final numbers. Not that he wasn't confused before he got the final numbers. I was thinking that another poster said maybe there was a confusion on what tesla needed to charge etc but no he posted after the final numbers so no confusion on those posted numbers.

Geez. Now I'm confused. Lol.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

What an odd thread. I mean usually when an issue has been resolved the thread subject line indicates it's been resolved. Tesla doesn't respond to things on this forum, but they do keep a good eye on it and i've seen a number of issues being resolved as a result.

I like the level of separation Tesla keeps regarding these forums. They might watch, but they don't intrude and they don't intimidate. People are free to rant and rave.

I can't really comment on this topic specifically of my bias against referral type programs. The reward corrupts a persons objectivity.

 

[donv]

Yes, I would prefer that they not honor such requests, at least if they involve deleting posts after a significant time period has elapsed. Many forums allow deletion or editing only in the first two hours after a posting, and/or before it's been quoted or had multiple subsequent posts.

But, I fully realize that it's not my forum nor my rules, so I'm just expressing my preference.

It was requested by the OP - are you saying you'd like the mods NOT to honor requests from forum members?

View attachment 104542

 

[qwk]

What an odd thread. I mean usually when an issue has been resolved the thread subject line indicates it's been resolved. Tesla doesn't respond to things on this forum, but they do keep a good eye on it and i've seen a number of issues being resolved as a result.

I like the level of separation Tesla keeps regarding these forums. They might watch, but they don't intrude and they don't intimidate. People are free to rant and rave.

I can't really comment on this topic specifically of my bias against referral type programs. The reward corrupts a persons objectivity.

I don't see it as odd at all. It really doesn't take that much thought to figure out whether something is right or wrong. Obviously Tesla ran into a demand problem with the Model S, otherwise they wouldn't have had to offer the program in the first place. The guy sold 96 cars for Tesla(that is a lot of scratch), and instead of taking care of him, Tesla chose to play number games. That is the main issue here.
The car is good enough that games really don't need to be played. Unfortunately, management has chosen that route, and it has done nothing but hurt the company, and their reputation.

 

[tomas]

I don't see it as odd at all. It really doesn't take that much thought to figure out whether something is right or wrong. Obviously Tesla ran into a demand problem with the Model S, otherwise they wouldn't have had to offer the program in the first place. The guy sold 96 cars for Tesla(that is a lot of scratch), and instead of taking care of him, Tesla chose to play number games. That is the main issue here.
The car is good enough that games really don't need to be played. Unfortunately, management has chosen that route, and it has done nothing but hurt the company, and their reputation.

There's another way to view it: Tesla wanted to promote more sales (not a demand problem, but - like any company - a desire to sell more); decided to test referral program; a guy found a way via web postings etc. to glom onto 96 sales - a few of which he had a real hand in; most of which were either a good network or a good marketing plan; as a result won a pile of goodies including option to trade up his S; didn't understand terms of offer and got ticked off; apparently was given yet more by a very generous company.

I'm not sure either is more accurate, but geez - don't make judgements without facts. Oh, I guess that's what we do here!:smile:

Don't be unhappy and bitter. Cheer up. Listen to my holiday song for this year (second post in thread)!

 

[jeffro01]

Obviously Tesla ran into a demand problem with the Model S, otherwise they wouldn't have had to offer the program in the first place.

That's quite a statement to make from your perspective unless you have access to some sales data that we don't. From even before cars were being delivered there were people asking, some more jokingly than others, whether or not Tesla would ever reward them for their time and effort in promoting the brand\car. They finally try to do something and you immediately assume it's because of a demand problem???...

Jeff

 

[qwk]

There's another way to view it: Tesla wanted to promote more sales (not a demand problem, but - like any company - a desire to sell more); decided to test referral program; a guy found a way via web postings etc. to glom onto 96 sales - a few of which he had a real hand in; most of which were either a good network or a good marketing plan; as a result won a pile of goodies including option to trade up his S; didn't understand terms of offer and got ticked off; apparently was given yet more by a very generous company.

I'm not sure either is more accurate, but geez - don't make judgements without facts. Oh, I guess that's what we do here!:smile:

Don't be unhappy and bitter. Cheer up. Listen to my holiday song for this year (second post in thread)!

This is about as bias of a reply as I have seen on here. Somebody had to go through a great deal of work in order to generate 96 sales of a $100k product. There is no question about that. Tesla has become a bait and swich company in the last year or so. Like I said, the car is better than any out there, the company-not so much.

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That's quite a statement to make from your perspective unless you have access to some sales data that we don't. From even before cars were being delivered there were people asking, some more jokingly than others, whether or not Tesla would ever reward them for their time and effort in promoting the brand\car. They finally try to do something and you immediately assume it's because of a demand problem???...

Jeff

It's just common sense. No company with a supply problem has to go through tactics like this. Unfortunately, some are blinded because they have skin in the game, aka stockholders.

 

[jeffro01]

It's just common sense. No company with a supply problem has to go through tactics like this. Unfortunately, some are blinded because they have skin in the game, aka stockholders.

Common sense? I really hate that phrase because such a thing has never, and will never, exist. What tactics are you referring to? Offering a referral program to reward people is now some sort of negative "tactics" thing? Good lord...

Jeff

 

[tomas]

This is about as bias of a reply as I have seen on here. Somebody had to go through a great deal of work in order to generate 96 sales of a $100k product. There is no question about that. Tesla has become a bait and swich company in the last year or so. Like I said, the car is better than any out there, the company-not so much.

On the contrary... when the referrals tournament started up, it was pretty clear to me that the winner would be somebody with a good marketing plan, not somebody who actually sold vehicles. Then we saw people game google search, film it on their car, spam forum members, camp out at/near sales centers, etc. You are pessimistic about Tesla and assume tournament winner busted his a$$. I think Tesla has demonstrated decency and integrity many times to me, and am pessimistic about the integrity of the referrals as I noted in posts when it was first launched. We are each entitled to our opinion. Only I am correct :wink:

 

[bonnie]

It's just common sense. No company with a supply problem has to go through tactics like this. Unfortunately, some are blinded because they have skin in the game, aka stockholders.

Common sense? I really hate that phrase because such a thing has never, and will never, exist. What tactics are you referring to? Offering a referral program to reward people is now some sort of negative "tactics" thing? Good lord...

Jeff

The commonly held opinion in other areas of the forum is that 1) this was the program that Elon referred to earlier in the year to work around dealerships, and 2) it was designed and rolled out purposely to help keep X-anticipation from cannibalizing S sales.

Very few people think it was a shoot-from-the-hip, trying to shore up demand for the S.

 

[qwk]

Common sense? I really hate that phrase because such a thing has never, and will never, exist. What tactics are you referring to? Offering a referral program to reward people is now some sort of negative "tactics" thing? Good lord...

Jeff

Its not just the reward program FYI. I'm taking the entire picture into account. There has been numerous tactics used by both Elon and Tesla, that just reek of desperation. It is what it is.

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On the contrary... when the referrals tournament started up, it was pretty clear to me that the winner would be somebody with a good marketing plan, not somebody who actually sold vehicles. Then we saw people game google search, film it on their car, spam forum members, camp out at/near sales centers, etc. You are pessimistic about Tesla and assume tournament winner busted his a$$. I think Tesla has demonstrated decency and integrity many times to me, and am pessimistic about the integrity of the referrals as I noted in posts when it was first launched. We are each entitled to our opinion. Only I am correct :wink:

Yes. This is what I'm talking about. When you involve money etc. for referrals, things turn sleazy, on both ends. The product was good enough that people took time to refer themselves with no financial motive.
I'm not pessimistic at all, it's just that I have enough money that I'm not bias at all. I just call it like I see it, even when I dislike the end result. Reality sucks, but fantasy is even worse....

 

[tomas]

I'm not pessimistic at all, it's just that I have enough money that I'm not bias at all. I just call it like I see it, even when I dislike the end result. Reality sucks, but fantasy is even worse....

You are still missing the gist of what I'm saying. The apparent difference between us is that I see both story lines - absent facts - as subjective, but plausible. Of course I prefer mine. You think my view is biased and yours is unbiased fact. And since when does amount of wealth have any relation to your level of bias? Geez. Truth is, without thorough investigation into this matter and full disclosure by all parties involved, none of us will ever know the real facts. Reply all you want, last post from me in this exchange.