Front-rear camera touchscreen parking protection switch kit reservations

[santana338]

swegman told you very clearly that the forward looking camera would not be compatible and why. The forward looking camera does not provide a video signal that would be viewable on the touchscreen. (I have no knowledge of this. I'm just restating what swegman posted. See above and upthread.)

I missed swegmans post earlier. Thanks for pointing it out.

I think swegman was thinking I meant to use the forward video camera in place. This is not what I am suggesting.

The existing kit uses a spare backup camera and puts it on the front of the car. The backup camera was the only camera available when the kit was developed. The downside of using the backup camera as a forward facing camera is the left-right reversal on the screen. If a new forward looking camera was used in place of the backup camera in the existing kit setup, I think this would solve the left-right reversal issue.

Even if the current front camera is not viewable on the main screen, I can't imagine the video signal for the forward camera would be any different from the rear camera.

 

[Andyw2100]

I missed swegmans post earlier. Thanks for pointing it out.

I think swegman was thinking I meant to use the forward video camera in place. This is not what I am suggesting.

The existing kit uses a spare backup camera and puts it on the front of the car. The backup camera was the only camera available when the kit was developed. The downside of using the backup camera as a forward facing camera is the left-right reversal on the screen. If a new forward looking camera was used in place of the backup camera in the existing kit setup, I think this would solve the left-right reversal issue.

Even if the current front camera is not viewable on the main screen, I can't imagine the video signal for the forward camera would be any different from the rear camera.

I think swegman understood exactly what you intended to do.

I think the front facing camera has no capability to output to the 17 inch display because Tesla apparently made that some really specific, proprietary format, which is why the only camera that can work to output a signal to the display is the rear-view camera. If there was currently any output from the front-facing camera to the display, you might be right that it could be used. But swegman has a lot of expertise when it comes to video stuff, so if he says it can't be used, I believe him. It makes sense since right now there is nothing that camera does that involves video being output to the 17 inch screen. In fact that camera doesn't output video anywhere.

 

[santana338]

I think swegman understood exactly what you intended to do.

I think the front facing camera has no capability to output to the 17 inch display because Tesla apparently made that some really specific, proprietary format, which is why the only camera that can work to output a signal to the display is the rear-view camera. If there was currently any output from the front-facing camera to the display, you might be right that it could be used. But swegman has a lot of expertise when it comes to video stuff, so if he says it can't be used, I believe him. It makes sense since right now there is nothing that camera does that involves video being output to the 17 inch screen. In fact that camera doesn't output video anywhere.

I'd love for swegman to chime and rule out the front facing camera with personal knowledge that it is not compatible. The Omnivision press release from 2012 hints that this camera would be ideal for all of Tesla's needs including back-up and autopilot functions:

Press Release from 2012

“Driven by both anticipated legal/regulatory requirements and consumer demand, rear-view cameras and other vision- and sensing-based driver assist systems are experiencing high adoption rates in next-generation vehicle designs around the world,” said Inayat Khajasha, senior product marketing manager at OmniVision. “The OV10630 is our flagship sensor, designed to meet the stringent requirements of this rapidly growing market. We believe that the selection of this sensor by a leading-edge manufacturer like Tesla Motors underscores our leadership role in shaping the future of automotive imaging.”

 

[HankLloydRight]

Even if the front facing autopilot camera is accessible and/or compatible, what good does it do for anyone? It's high up on the windscreen, and it can't see the road directly in front of the car or any obstructions that you need to see when parking.

The only extra purpose it could serve is to act like a dashcam, but that's not in scope of this project/thread.

 

[Andyw2100]

I'd love for swegman to chime and rule out the front facing camera with personal knowledge that it is not compatible. The Omnivision press release from 2012 hints that this camera would be ideal for all of Tesla's needs including back-up and autopilot functions:

Press Release from 2012

“Driven by both anticipated legal/regulatory requirements and consumer demand, rear-view cameras and other vision- and sensing-based driver assist systems are experiencing high adoption rates in next-generation vehicle designs around the world,” said Inayat Khajasha, senior product marketing manager at OmniVision. “The OV10630 is our flagship sensor, designed to meet the stringent requirements of this rapidly growing market. We believe that the selection of this sensor by a leading-edge manufacturer like Tesla Motors underscores our leadership role in shaping the future of automotive imaging.”

Perhaps swegman will weigh in. But I'm not sure what part of what he said is confusing to you. I know you said you missed his post the first time, and you still seem to be having trouble understanding it. Here it is again:

If I understand your question, you are referring to the front camera in the rear view mirror that is used for the autopilot functions. If that is correct, the answer is likely no, as that camera provides no video signal that is viewable on the touchscreen.

That seems pretty crystal clear to me. But perhaps he will indulge you and say it again.

As for the press release you quoted, what's your point? That's a press release about the backup camera. No one is questioning the backup camera's ability to display video on the 17-inch display.

Even if the front facing autopilot camera is accessible and/or compatible, what good does it do for anyone? It's high up on the windscreen, and it can't see the road directly in front of the car or any obstructions that you need to see when parking.

The only extra purpose it could serve is to act like a dashcam, but that's not in scope of this project/thread.

santana338 is talking about buying extra front cameras instead of extra backup cameras, to solve the problem of the image being flipped. He wasn't talking about trying to use the existing one mounted where it is. The problem, however, is that as per swegman, it won't work, because the front camera can't ouput video to the 17-inch display.

 

[swegman]

The Tesla backup camera is capable of displaying a non-reversed image by programming a bit in a specific register. The problem is Omnivision will not disclose to anyone how to reprogram the register unless they are a customer and sign an NDA. I found the specific register that selects whether or not the image is reversed, but neither me or anyone else has been successful to find out how to program it and with what equipment. It is also not clear from the limited materials we found whether this register needs to be set only once, or whether the register is set by the touchscreen each time the camera is powered up.

No other camera has been able to provide an image on the 17 inch touchscreen. Artsci even purchased an adapter that converts the signal from a conventional camera to the signal type required by the 17 inch touchscreen, but it did not work with the Tesla touchscreen. We may purchase a touchscreen to attempt to reverse engineer the camera input thereon (there most likely is a unique handshake between the screen and camera signal) in order to enable the use of a non-reversing camera, and/or to provide an input for, for example a dvd player, and maybe an output to enable recording the images from the front and rear cameras (and maybe side cameras) (i.e., think dash cam).

As others have noted, the camera in the rear view mirror is mounted too high to see obstructions when parking. Further, it is unlikely that you could purchase (from Tesla) the camera in the rear view mirror without purchasing the entire mirror assembly.

BTW, pictures of the Tesla touchscreen that have been posted on TMC shows it has two video inputs on its back panel. It would not surprise me if when a second compatible camera is connected to the second video input that the touchscreen pops up a window to select video 1 or video 2 to display. If we get a touchscreen (or someone wants to volunteer to pull their touchscreen out of the dash so that a cable can be connected to the input of video 2), we will look into this possibility.

 

[artsci]

The Tesla backup camera is capable of displaying a non-reversed image by programming a bit in a specific register. The problem is Omnivision will not disclose to anyone how to reprogram the register unless they are a customer and sign an NDA. I found the specific register that selects whether or not the image is reversed, but neither me or anyone else has been successful to find out how to program it and with what equipment. It is also not clear from the limited materials we found whether this register needs to be set only once, or whether the register is set by the touchscreen each time the camera is powered up.

No other camera has been able to provide an image on the 17 inch touchscreen. Artsci even purchased an adapter that converts the signal from a conventional camera to the signal type required by the 17 inch touchscreen, but it did not work with the Tesla touchscreen. We may purchase a touchscreen to attempt to reverse engineer the camera input thereon (there most likely is a unique handshake between the screen and camera signal) in order to enable the use of a non-reversing camera, and/or to provide an input for, for example a dvd player, and maybe an output to enable recording the images from the front and rear cameras (and maybe side cameras) (i.e., think dash cam).

As others have noted, the camera in the rear view mirror is mounted too high to see obstructions when parking. Further, it is unlikely that you could purchase (from Tesla) the camera in the rear view mirror without purchasing the entire mirror assembly.

BTW, pictures of the Tesla touchscreen that have been posted on TMC shows it has two video inputs on its back panel. It would not surprise me if when a second compatible camera is connected to the second video input that the touchscreen pops up a window to select video 1 or video 2 to display. If we get a touchscreen (or someone wants to volunteer to pull their touchscreen out of the dash so that a cable can be connected to the input of video 2), we will look into this possibility.

Swegman is completely right. No other camera than the Tesla camera will work and currently there's no interface that will work either. Remember, the switch is exactly that. As it's seeing the same signal, the touchscreen thinks the front camera is the rear camera.

The company I've contacted about creating the interface seemed to get cold feet when I sent them a number of photos of all of the connections and cables for the touchscreen. I haven't heard from them since (but I was out of the country for a week and will pursue them again now that I'm back). In the meantime I've put off buying the spare touchscreen until they confirm that they want to do the work.

 

[LittoDevil]

Got a question .. on the side of the box it says 12v, Gnd, Rear & Frnt... on the instructions it's 12v, gnd, sw1, sw2.

I know I connect the reverse light signal to "Rear" aka "Sw1" but.. what is Frnt or Sw2 for? Is it for anything? Just curious.. hehe..

Artsci & WhiteP85 Thanks for designing the kit!

Larry

 

[santana338]

The Tesla backup camera is capable of displaying a non-reversed image by programming a bit in a specific register. The problem is Omnivision will not disclose to anyone how to reprogram the register unless they are a customer and sign an NDA. I found the specific register that selects whether or not the image is reversed, but neither me or anyone else has been successful to find out how to program it and with what equipment. It is also not clear from the limited materials we found whether this register needs to be set only once, or whether the register is set by the touchscreen each time the camera is powered up.

No other camera has been able to provide an image on the 17 inch touchscreen. Artsci even purchased an adapter that converts the signal from a conventional camera to the signal type required by the 17 inch touchscreen, but it did not work with the Tesla touchscreen. We may purchase a touchscreen to attempt to reverse engineer the camera input thereon (there most likely is a unique handshake between the screen and camera signal) in order to enable the use of a non-reversing camera, and/or to provide an input for, for example a dvd player, and maybe an output to enable recording the images from the front and rear cameras (and maybe side cameras) (i.e., think dash cam).

As others have noted, the camera in the rear view mirror is mounted too high to see obstructions when parking. Further, it is unlikely that you could purchase (from Tesla) the camera in the rear view mirror without purchasing the entire mirror assembly.

BTW, pictures of the Tesla touchscreen that have been posted on TMC shows it has two video inputs on its back panel. It would not surprise me if when a second compatible camera is connected to the second video input that the touchscreen pops up a window to select video 1 or video 2 to display. If we get a touchscreen (or someone wants to volunteer to pull their touchscreen out of the dash so that a cable can be connected to the input of video 2), we will look into this possibility.

I have not been following this topic for a while so I apologize for not having the latest info.

I didn't realize the forward looking mirror was built into the rearview mirror. I was thinking last night that even if the forward facing camera was compatible, it would not be a good fit anyway because it is meant to be inside the car and not on the outside like the rear camera with its lens exposed to the elements. It would likely not survive long on a front license plate bracket.

Thanks for clearing that up for me swegman.

 

[artsci]

Got a question .. on the side of the box it says 12v, Gnd, Rear & Frnt... on the instructions it's 12v, gnd, sw1, sw2.

I know I connect the reverse light signal to "Rear" aka "Sw1" but.. what is Frnt or Sw2 for? Is it for anything? Just curious.. hehe..

Artsci & WhiteP85 Thanks for designing the kit!

Larry

Front/SW2 is for nothing.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Also, as artsci has mentioned way way up thread, the left/right reversal for the front camera is really no big deal.. when you're trying to not hit a parking barrier or other obstacles, it almost doesn't matter. And the wide angle lens is so wide angle, anything more than a few feet away is almost not even visible in any usable way.

 

[Andyw2100]

For those of you that have already installed this: roughly how long would you say it took? If you used a professional installer, do you happen to know how long it took them? Would you say this is a more complicated installation than a typical dashcam or radar detector installation?

I'm definitely not going to attempt this myself. I'm just trying to figure out who can do it for me.

Thanks!

 

[swegman]

About 2 hours. The hardest part is the lifting of the floor carpet in the passenger seat area and finding the correct wire to connect to so that the cameras switch between the front and rear cameras based upon the car being in reverse or drive. Its a fairly easy install.

 

[Andyw2100]

About 2 hours. The hardest part is the lifting of the floor carpet in the passenger seat area and finding the correct wire to connect to so that the cameras switch between the front and rear cameras based upon the car being in reverse or drive. Its a fairly easy install.

Thanks, swegman.

Anyone else care to weigh in with how long it took you, or how long it took your installer if you know?

I have a potential installer whom I definitely trust who works on high-end cars. I know they do excellent work. They regularly install stereo systems, dashcams, radar detectors, etc. I thought this would be right up their alley. Their main installer looked at some of the information briefly and expressed some concerns. He's going to look at it more thoroughly and get back to me. That's the reason I'm trying to find out if this is actually a very difficult installation, or if it should be relatively easy for a professional.

(I'd also be using the license plate mounting bracket, which I would think would make the installation at least a little easier than if I wanted to install the camera behind the grill.)

Also, am I correct that there is no soldering involved in the installation if I want to have the unit use switched power, so that it powers on and off when the Model S does? From reading the installation manual, that was my take on it, but I could be mistaken.

Thanks for the help and advice.

 

[DavidB]

FYI: I'm working on a mounting plate for the front camera. I haven't installed the prototype yet, but it looks very good. I'll post photos in a few days.

 

[Andyw2100]

FYI: I'm working on a mounting plate for the front camera. I haven't installed the prototype yet, but it looks very good. I'll post photos is a few days.

Great! Thanks!

 

[marcsegal]

I'm in. Add me to the list

 

[HankLloydRight]

I have a potential installer whom I definitely trust who works on high-end cars. I know they do excellent work. They regularly install stereo systems, dashcams, radar detectors, etc. I thought this would be right up their alley. Their main installer looked at some of the information briefly and expressed some concerns. He's going to look at it more thoroughly and get back to me. That's the reason I'm trying to find out if this is actually a very difficult installation, or if it should be relatively easy for a professional.

I would call this a simple install for a professional.

At first, I took the kit to a local professional, who looked at it, and balked at running the camera cable up the side through the door, and instead, wanted to run it through the firewall and do it "his way". Well, I balked at that and just did it myself. I've done lots of radar and audio and other car electronics installs in the past, so this was really no big deal. As mentioned, the hardest part is getting under the pax footwell and finding the one wire in the connector to signal reverse.. and even that wasn't all that hard. And the new method of running that one wire in the hollow metal tube to the other side of the car is so simple. You probably don't need to solder anything, but you might have to strip and crimp a few connectors on some wires.

The instructions are very detailed and make it look like running the camera cable from the grill is somewhat complicated... but it's really easy! I also sent Rick the following suggestion on running the cable from the frunk to the cabin:

Also, I found (what I think is) a better way to run the cable into the dash area.. instead of coming in sideways next to the side panel door-jam area and through the weather stripping, I routed the cable up the A pillar a little bit (3-4 inches), and then ran it straight down beneath the rubber molding into the dash area. This had the benefit of not deforming the weatherstripping on the side so much because of the thicker cable coming through it. Also, you can't see any cables exposed this way at all.

Also, for power, I used the OBDII port, but instead of soldering the OBD connector included with the kit, I got one of these: Amazon.com: Oem OBD-II OBD2 16Pin Male to Female Extension Cable Diagnostic Extender 100cm: Automotive and hacked off one end, found the two wires that were + and -, and used that for power. Real easy. (note: the wires inside the cable are very thin, so you or your installer might need to beef them up with some larger wire before connecting to the camera module).

 

[Andyw2100]

I would call this a simple install for a professional.

Thanks for the detailed response. I'll definitely male sure to pass along your suggestion regarding the A-pillar routing to whomever winds up doing the install for me.

I'm wondering why you chose to go with the OBD connection for power. With that connection drawing power all the time, isn't that a negative? What were the benefits that outweighed the negative?

 

[HankLloydRight]

I'm wondering why you chose to go with the OBD connection for power. With that connection drawing power all the time, isn't that a negative? What were the benefits that outweighed the negative?

It's a very small amount of power, a few miliwatts maybe? Artsci might be able to chime in, I think it's mentioned in this thread somewhere. I am also pulling power from the same source for my dashcam with parking mode/motion sensor so it was easier to tap into that harness I created than switched power from the fusebox or tapping into a different power wire in the MS harness. It's also easier to remove the entire setup -- camera module, dashcam, OBDII plug, etc without leaving a trace or cutting or resplicing anything.

I don't think the drain on the batter amounts to enough to worry about. Also, it's being pulled from the 12v battery anyway and not the traction pack. Sure, the 12V might need to be recharged slightly more often, but again, it's such a small draw, it can't really account for all that much. Though I did install a switch in the OBDII port area in case I need to shut them both down for some extended period of time or in the rare case I might need to limit vampire drain, but I really can't think of any. It's not like I leave my car parked at the airport for extended periods of time (I take my ICE to the airport for that).