Frunk Security Issue - can be opened without a key - Feature not a bug

[cookpwr]

PSA: Public Service Announcement: Don't leave valuables in your Frunk

making the rounds on the interwebs; Start it at the 11 Minute mark.

Hey, Tesla owners: Your front trunk is not secure storage

 

[JohnnyG]

I just so happened to be watching a YouTube video on that last night. The alarm will sound, which is good, but for how quick and easy it is for anyone to pop open the frunk, I would suggest against putting valuables in there as well. Within 3 seconds, someone could be running off with your laptop, tablet, hard work, etc. By the time someone would hear the alarm and look, the thief would be long on their way.

I originally thought that the frunk was the safest, most secure, place to put my valuables, because it is so isolated. But with that external manual release, it's the least safe place to put anything. The manual release should have been placed inside the passenger compartment, or a mechanical key to access the manual frunk release if left outside as it is.

 

[Zaphod]

I just so happened to be watching a YouTube video on that last night. The alarm will sound, which is good, but for how quick and easy it is for anyone to pop open the frunk, I would suggest against putting valuables in there as well. Within 3 seconds, someone could be running off with your laptop, tablet, hard work, etc. By the time someone would hear the alarm and look, the thief would be long on their way.

I originally thought that the frunk was the safest, most secure, place to put my valuables, because it is so isolated. But with that external manual release, it's the least safe place to put anything. The manual release should have been placed inside the passenger compartment, or a mechanical key to access the manual frunk release if left outside as it is.

The main purpose of the manual release is for emergency personnel and first responders to get quick access to the "cut loop" to cut power from the battery in the case of an accident. This is why it is relatively easy to access because it needs to be.

 

[croman]

Newer frunk is so tiny anyways. I only store baby stuff and chademo adapter for emergencies.

 

[JohnnyG]

The main purpose of the manual release is for emergency personnel and first responders to get quick access to the "cut loop" to cut power from the battery in the case of an accident. This is why it is relatively easy to access because it needs to be.

I completely understand that, truly... But they had a secondary location to disable the HV & SRS in the pre-facelift MS, near the charge port. I'm not sure if this location still exists in the facelift MS though. They did make it less simple to pop the frunk in the facelift MS, with two release latches; one behind each inner wheel well. However, the pre-facelift is quite quick and simple. The MX is by far the easiest though, with a simple cover pop and pull the release.

Regardless, I do think it's important for owner's to be aware of the security risk. The frunk gives the appearance of the most secure area on our vehicles, but in reality, it is the most vulnerable.

 

[P100DHG.]

So someone can pop the frunk and cut the cable? Even if they had no intention of stealing anything they can just simply vandalize and destroy your car with a snip. Why wouldn't a cut off switch work aswell as cutting a wire? Horrible design, bad security flaw. I would to epoxy mine shut.

Amazon.com: Devcon 21445 Flow-Mix 60-Second Epoxy - 14 ml Syringe: Automotive

 

[MoonChou]

So someone can pop the frunk and cut the cable? Even if they had no intention of stealing anything they can just simply vandalize and destroy your car with a snip. Why wouldn't a cut off switch work aswell as cutting a wire? Horrible design, bad security flaw. I would to epoxy mine shut.

Amazon.com: Devcon 21445 Flow-Mix 60-Second Epoxy - 14 ml Syringe: Automotive

People can also vandalize a car by slashing tires and smashing windows both of which would require arguably less effort.

 

[JohnnyG]

People can also vandalize a car by slashing tires and smashing windows both of which would require arguably less effort.

I wonder if what @DHG. was trying to say is that, very quickly and easily, someone could 100% completely disable your car to the point of absolutely requiring a tow. A kicked-in dent, keyed paint, smashed window, even a slashed tire, could be counter measured on the spot, and driven away. But, if they snip out a section of the orange wire.... poof! that's it, you're done for.

 

[MoonChou]

I wonder if what @DHG. was trying to say is that, very quickly and easily, someone could 100% completely disable your car to the point of absolutely requiring a tow. A kicked-in dent, keyed paint, smashed window, even a slashed tire, could be counter measured on the spot, and driven away. But, if they snip out a section of the orange wire.... poof! that's it, you're done for.

Yes, that is a valid point and probably was the original intent of the post. Also cutting the wire would probably lead to an expensive repair, but I just thought of another thing that can be done easily and be even more dangerous. Cutting the break line. At least with the orange wire cut you can't do anywhere. I would rather have that than to go 30-45 MPH and then not being able to stop for a red light.

 

[steve841]

People actually use the frunk?

 

[Obsoletion]

So someone can pop the frunk and cut the cable? Even if they had no intention of stealing anything they can just simply vandalize and destroy your car with a snip. Why wouldn't a cut off switch work aswell as cutting a wire? Horrible design, bad security flaw. I would to epoxy mine shut.

Amazon.com: Devcon 21445 Flow-Mix 60-Second Epoxy - 14 ml Syringe: Automotive

How about just cutting the strap off that gets pulled to release it?

 

[P100DHG.]

All good points you guys seem like top of the class vandals. I was suggesting it would be a death nail to the car and probably cost a crap load to fix. But all of you guys thought of better ways.

 

[MoonChou]

People actually use the frunk?

When I pick up fast food I put it in there on the drive home

All good points you guys seem like top of the class vandals. I was suggesting it would be a death nail to the car and probably cost a crap load to fix. But all of you guys thought of better ways.

To the vandal comment haha. It was mostly the comment 'Horrible design, bad security flaw' that I questioned. It's there so that emergency workers can safely disconnect power. There are probably other methods to make some easily accessible, but secure. Unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions though.

I honestly don't think it's a horrible design because comparatively cutting brake lines or opening a car hood, to mess with an engine, isn't that difficult either (based on my vandal experience - I come from an auto mechanic and body repair background and you see a lot of things done to cars).

 

[cookpwr]

All interesting discussions.

Back to the point of my OP = Awareness this "Front Trunk" is not secure as a place for valuables.

Yes, valuables on seats with windows are even less secure but again not the point. Yes, you can break into other parts of a car.

However, most of us are behaviorally trained that the Trunk of a car is generally more secure than other places in the car (harder to break into and you can't see inside of it).

I'm curious if everyone's reactions would be different if this were a "Rear Trunk" discussion and on any other car?

Imagine if you could access somebody's rear trunk by simply popping off a cover and pulling a strap? I'm not sure there would be all the rationalization that's going on here.

Bottom line; Just be aware and make your own choices of what to put in the Frunk and for how long.

 

[gearchruncher]

The reason you can pop the frunk this way is not just because of the emergency disconnect...

It's because of the 12v battery. If this ever dies, you can't get into the car, even if the traction battery is full. You need to be able to get into the frunk with no power so you can replace it.

 

[Todd Burch]

Zero incidents of this ever occurring over 4.5 yrs of Model S production. And slashing 4 tires, cutting a fuel or brake line, and other things could absolutely disable any car.

Probably not super-expensive to fix--just would require a cable to be replaced.

Let's not blow things out of proportion, folks.

 

[dhanson865]

Yes, that is a valid point and probably was the original intent of the post. Also cutting the wire would probably lead to an expensive repair, but I just thought of another thing that can be done easily and be even more dangerous. Cutting the break line. At least with the orange wire cut you can't do anywhere. I would rather have that than to go 30-45 MPH and then not being able to stop for a red light.

I wonder in a car as computerized as a Tesla if the car wouldn't tell you before you put it into drive that the brakes wouldn't pressurize.

Even so if they cut the friction brakes you could still stop with the massive regen available unless you were cold soaked (below freezing) or charged to 100%. Sure regen might not get you to a complete stop every time but a 3 mph fender bender is a lot prettier than a 30 mph fender bender. And given a long open space or an uphill grade you could coast to a stop from 3 mph.

 

[JohnnyG]

... Cutting the break line. At least with the orange wire cut you can't do anywhere. I would rather have that than to go 30-45 MPH and then not being able to stop for a red light.

... Even so if they cut the friction brakes you could still stop with the massive regen available unless you were cold soaked (below freezing) or charged to 100%. Sure regen might not get you to a complete stop every time but a 3 mph fender bender is a lot prettier than a 30 mph fender bender. And given a long open space or an uphill grade you could coast to a stop from 3 mph.

Let's not forget that you can just hit the Park button, and the car will engage the mechanical Emergency/Parking brakes. You can also engage this through the touchscreen menu, but it's easier just to hit the Park button on the gear stalk. I've tried it, just so I knew what it would do. It's pretty effective.

All that being said.... As the OP already re-stated, the point was to extend awareness that the Frunk is not secure. It's a reasonable objective statement to make and he should be thanked for trying to contribute to expanding the knowledge of the community, instead of being ridiculed.

 

[Shock-On-T]

Zero incidents of this ever occurring over 4.5 yrs of Model S production. And slashing 4 tires, cutting a fuel or brake line, and other things could absolutely disable any car.

Probably not super-expensive to fix--just would require a cable to be replaced.

Let's not blow things out of proportion, folks.

Very true, and a fuel line is a lot easier than a high voltage cable. Better wear rubber boots and gloves...

 

[gearchruncher]

Very true, and a fuel line is a lot easier than a high voltage cable. Better wear rubber boots and gloves...

The cable you cut under the frunk is the ground for the 12V system. This disables the 12V in the car, which turns off the high voltage inside the battery via a relay so there is no high voltage in the car anywhere. Cutting it is no more dangerous than putting your hand on the ground of a 12V battery and the body of the car which humans have been doing for a century.

If it was high voltage, what good would rubber boots do you? The high voltage in the car is not grounded to the body of the vehicle, so high voltage only exists between two wires. On top of that, the rubber tires insulate the car from the earth. So how will current travel through your feet?

500V rated gloves are a good idea though and required by Tesla in any high voltage service.