Frunk Thoughts or Engineering Disaster

[sleepydoc]

All electric cars, particularly SUVs, look like the ICE merely has been replaced, including Teslas.
IMO, the EV could lead, should lead to new architectures and layouts.

That's why I like the Nissan Ariya. No storage any more upfront, and a 'bonnet section' that's
barely noticeable for a SUV. You could also call it 'cab forward' design. Actually, like a larger
BMW i3.

If you compare, the Model Y hood/bonnet configuration is not all that different from the Ariya. It slopes down a bit more and so may actually give a better view of the road.

As mentioned above, aside from being a spot to put the motor, storage, etc, the front of the car plays an important structural role in crash protection, something Tesla has consciously worked and excelled at. It would likely be possible to shrink the front of the car some, but personally I appreciate not just the storage space, but having a separate space. It’s something I’ve found to be unexpectedly convenient.

 

[voyager]

If you compare, the Model Y hood/bonnet configuration is not all that different from the Ariya. It slopes down a bit more and so may actually give a better view of the road.

As mentioned above, aside from being a spot to put the motor, storage, etc, the front of the car plays an important structural role in crash protection, something Tesla has consciously worked and excelled at. It would likely be possible to shrink the front of the car some, but personally I appreciate not just the storage space, but having a separate space. It’s something I’ve found to be unexpectedly convenient.

Cab-forward may actually mean that the car is safer, as the steeper-raked A-pillars are more forward-positioned.

 

[mangrove79]

All electric cars, particularly SUVs, look like the ICE merely has been replaced, including Teslas.
IMO, the EV could lead, should lead to new architectures and layouts.

That's why I like the Nissan Ariya. No storage any more upfront, and a 'bonnet section' that's
barely noticeable for a SUV. You could also call it 'cab forward' design. Actually, like a larger
BMW i3.

It's personal aesthetics, not some kind of design revolution, IMO. Storage in the front section of an EV actually has a lot of utility:

1. Separate storage from the trunk when you don't want certain things to mix, e.g. pizza and golf shoes
2. Crash protection zone that can absorb impact before it reaches the cabin and passengers
3. Reduce drag and improve efficiency as it's easier to make an EV more aerodynamic with a longer front side
4. The physical space in the frunk also makes it easier to add post-production features (DIY auto-frunk for example). A super-tight space would make any addition/connection difficult. This is probably the least important utility.

Designing for the sake of being revolutionary - that is, ignoring utility - is the wrong way to design, IMO.

 

[mswlogo]

I don’t get it. You just want to cram things together more.

Personally I wish they spread things out more and just use up the whole funk to make more serviceable. Like some EV’s did.

Don’t forget Tesla has sone of the best crash tests scores. I think they know what they are doing. When I remove the liner I’m impressed how well engineered it is. You can tell if varies sone that sone parts are over engineered and some under. But over all very impressive.

 

[Bouba]

I assume that the frunk contributes to the wheelbase length and therefore improves the handling

 

[Calliope]

I didn’t know that the charging terminals are in with the towing eye...very clever.

Yeah, it's like hot wiring your frunk! I taped a little 12V battery in there to use to open it if needed, since my car booster pack would be unavailable if there was no power to open the car.

 

[sleepydoc]

Cab-forward may actually mean that the car is safer, as the steeper-raked A-pillars are more forward-positioned.

It’s not the cab forward design as much as having a front end. Ultimately, if the front end is half as long you only have half the distance (and thus twice the deceleration forces) before intrusion into the passenger compartment. The ultimate version of this was the VW mini bus. In this design your knees were an integral part of collision protection!

https://framtida.no/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/1976_Volkswagen_Type_2_T2_Mini_Bus_30831257785.jpg

 

[tengtengvn]

My entire Costco load fits in the frunk. I don't have the picture but a big Costco pizza box can fit perfectly in the Model X's frunk.

or a great place for clothes and sleeping bag when I go camping.

It shields my hotspot from the weather.

It's incredible how Tesla was able to arrange everything to make the most use of the available space.

 

[sleepydoc]

My entire Costco load fits in the frunk. I don't have the picture but a big Costco pizza box can fit perfectly in the Model X's frunk.

or a great place for clothes and sleeping bag when I go camping.

It shields my hotspot from the weather.

It's incredible how Tesla was able to arrange everything to make the most use of the available space.

is the Verizon hot spot actually cheaper than just paying Tesla for premium connectivity?

 

[tengtengvn]

is the Verizon hot spot actually cheaper than just paying Tesla for premium connectivity?

If you don't care about live traffic and sat view then yes. I use my verizon and t-mobile SIM cards depend on the location. You can get T-Mobile Business Tablet Plan: Unlimited Data for $10/month tax included.

 

[sleepydoc]

If you don't care about live traffic and sat view then yes. I use my verizon and t-mobile SIM cards depend on the location. You can get T-Mobile Business Tablet Plan: Unlimited Data for $10/month tax included.

Except it's $10 per month/$99 per year through Tesla. Seems like you're paying the same or more for less (unless you're using the hotspot for other uses and taking it out of the car.)

 

[tengtengvn]

Except it's $10 per month/$99 per year through Tesla. Seems like you're paying the same or more for less (unless you're using the hotspot for other uses and taking it out of the car.)

Can the Tesla premium connectivity share its data with other devices? There're many use cases for the hotspot in the car. Especially one with an external antenna likes mine. My old Chevy has a built-in AT&T hotspot and via its big antenna, we could get internet access in many of the campgrounds where we had zero bar on t-mobile and verizon. I use the hotspot internet for work while I'm waiting at the charger. All our phones and kid's tablet have internet access while we're traveling.
By the way, my car has lifetime premium connectivity.

 

[DrChaos]

The BMW iX doesnt even have a front trunk (frunk). I was like "huh?" when we were (very very briefly) considering that car for replacing my wifes X3.

The iX is supposed to be a ground-up EV-only architecture, not a modification of the ICE architecture like the i4 from the 4-series. There isn't an excuse then.

BMW iX to Use Bespoke EV Architecture -- Will be the Only Car to Use It

The upcoming BMW iX will be built on a bespoke EV architecture designed solely for it and will be the last car built on it.

www.bmwblog.com

 

[sleepydoc]

Can the Tesla premium connectivity share its data with other devices? There're many use cases for the hotspot in the car. Especially one with an external antenna likes mine. My old Chevy has a built-in AT&T hotspot and via its big antenna, we could get internet access in many of the campgrounds where we had zero bar on t-mobile and verizon. I use the hotspot internet for work while I'm waiting at the charger. All our phones and kid's tablet have internet access while we're traveling.
By the way, my car has lifetime premium connectivity.

Ah, so you're really using it as a true hotspot for internet connectivity for the riders, not the car. I just use my cell phone as a hotspot when I need to rather than pay for an extra line but also rarely use/need it. Depending on your use (and your cell phone plan) I can see how that could make sense.

 

[3sr+buyer]

It’s not the cab forward design as much as having a front end. Ultimately, if the front end is half as long you only have half the distance (and thus twice the deceleration forces) before intrusion into the passenger compartment. The ultimate version of this was the VW mini bus. In this design your knees were an integral part of collision protection!
View attachment 787557

https://framtida.no/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/1976_Volkswagen_Type_2_T2_Mini_Bus_30831257785.jpg

For comparison, the ID.Buzz may look stylistically similar, but there is considerably more space between the front end and the front seats. Note that the front doors are behind the front wheels, rather than in front of them like in the 1976 VW Bus.

 

[sleepydoc]

Note that the front doors are behind the front wheels, rather than in front of them like in the 1976 VW Bus.

Yeah - they bring the a pillars forward and the nose basically continues that slope so it looks a lot like the old VW busses but there's a good 1~1.5 meters more than the original version.

Good to see an electric minivan. Most minivans do a lot of in town driving but it took forever for car makers to come out with hybrid versions. Hopefully others will follow VW's lead on the EV front.

 

[randmness]

I think another cool design are the new Canoo EVs. Your feet are still a few feet behind the front of the car, but the A pillar (and the interior) pretty much stretch to the front of the car. I believe their prototypes still have front storage, but its below the front interior space/dash (vs in front like a frunk.)

Whether it is vaporware or not is another question lol.

What I think is super fascinating is what vehicles will look like when they inevitably become fully autonomous. Some of the designs remind me of modern trains with how occupants are seated in a car. Some of the concepts remind me of reverse pickup trucks (the "trunk"/cabin space sits in front of the passengers.)

 

[iamnid]

Thought I'd add the "frunk" from the ID Buzz in case you haven't seen it (doesn't provide any storage):

 

[Wattsisname]

The iX is kinda an EV platform, but they messed it up bad, larger hood than the iX3 but no frunk, and about the same boot storage too.

The iX3 has quite a lot of space under the hood, with a few hours redesign etc they could easily have provided storage but its a BMW so 'screw you', you should have bought the petrol version...

The i3/ID platform I think is just poorly designed from a packaging pov, probably because its an assembly of parts from the suppliers, which leads to its software issues also. The parts on their own are ok but usually only doing the 1 task and not built for the task.

It may simply be the result of a rush to catch up. Unlike Tesla ( and a few others) which was founded to create electric vehicles, the ICE makers have had to bite a bullet and, almost literally, turn round a flat out oil tanker.

Even after seeing the MS in 2014 ( I fell for it hook line and sinker), I did not envisage sitting here 8 years later and checking my EDD for a MY. But then, I am not a major " Auto - Crat".

 

[dipper]

Thought I'd add the "frunk" from the ID Buzz in case you haven't seen it (doesn't provide any storage):

View attachment 788359View attachment 788358

I love a van without a frunk any day.

This thing is going to be 5 inches shorter than my van. And 8 inches shorter than current vans.

This gets so much more space than MX, and still shorter. Yeah. I take interior space for passenger and cargo over a near useless frunk.

Since most Americans hate vans, they probably don't know what I am talking about.