FSD / AP Rewrite - turning the corner?
- Thread starter VanillaAir_UK
- Start date
pdk42
Active Member
How can they make those features function better on HW2x when things like phantom braking etc are going to require the 4D solution which is HW3 code?
Having followed Tesla for longer than I care to remember I suspect HW2x will now be largely left to its own devices and any improvement in performance will be marginal as Musk doesn't seem to care about making every owners car better, only every car that supports the latest tech.
So my hunch is a bigger gulf between HW2x cars (and so by definition not on FSD) and HW3 cars will grow, not just on features but the performance of features, which will in turn increase those willing to shell out £4-8k depending on EAP/AP to get FSD for the more reliable performance as well as any new features.
Bingo... nail on head.
Tesla will stop investing in the older cars other than the minimum, and if you want more (features and performance of existing features) you now start paying for FSD or you buy a new car, just like MCU1 owners lost out on loads of new features, HW2 owners don't get sentry etc.
goRt
Member
Where is it written that phantom braking can only be solved by 4D.
They'll dumb down the features to make them function like a proper car.
4 years of trying to do it the old way, Tesla shifting to 4D, now developing code for HW3 platform and Musk saying he hopes phantom braking will be solved as part of the rewrite. Maybe its adding 2+2+2+2 and getting 9 but its not an unreasonable conclusion.
Musk want the latest to be the greatest and any resource on last generation hardware is a distraction.
goRt
Member
So something you've made up yourself.
How do you lose out on features you never had in the first place?
Technology keeps evolving rapidly. What you buy today is old tomorrow. Surely you can’t expect Tesla to give you free hardware updates as well as software?
At least we have an option to upgrade the hardware without having to shell out for a new car and that much can’t be said for the “competition”
True that we have high expectations but the reality is that tech keeps evolving limitations will not stop at hw3. It’s the same with TV’s, mobile phones and so on. Let’s be realistic.
Florafauna
Member
While I moan about the ability of FSD to even go round a basic tight corner, I accept that its not going to work on our A roads for quite some time.
The way forward, as far as I can see, is for FSD to progress to work hands off on motorway type roads. There are fewer variables and edge cases should be easier to cope with. Road markings should be better and ideally the government should begin the process by designating a section of motorway where approved systems can run hands off. Manufacturers could even Digitally map those limited sections to ensure better performance.
Personally I love driving so on most roads I'd rather do it myself. The only time I'd rather be doing something else is on a Motorway. Its so boring - the obvious place to start the rollout of proper FSD.
The way forward, as far as I can see, is for FSD to progress to work hands off on motorway type roads. There are fewer variables and edge cases should be easier to cope with. Road markings should be better and ideally the government should begin the process by designating a section of motorway where approved systems can run hands off. Manufacturers could even Digitally map those limited sections to ensure better performance.
Personally I love driving so on most roads I'd rather do it myself. The only time I'd rather be doing something else is on a Motorway. Its so boring - the obvious place to start the rollout of proper FSD.
I think in addition we can also look at the sudden expansive upgrading of cars with FSD to HW3 because its now needed and the variable performance of the cars now in operation with older hardware that don't always detect oncoming cars etc suggesting the processing window is maxing out from time to time on HW2.5 and below causing glitches. If you need to compile for HW3 it's not going to run on HW2.5 even if you had a HW3 emulator.
Tesla would never put out a post that says "tough luck HW2.5 and below" so its not going to be written down, all you can do is look at the variety of points we do have a fairly clear understanding on.
The "feature" is the claim by Tesla that overall software updates continually keep the cars up to date with the latest features and software updates.
To quote Teslas website "Over-the-air software updates introduce new features, functionality and performance" only they now don't.
And implied by all Elon comments over the years that cars with FSD would finaly actually be able to do that - but they won't. Remember the orginal promises about car meeting you by the kerb for the morning commute and being on the robotaxi fleet?
There are certain legislative blockers that will prevent FSD from performing to it's best ability in the EU/UK (for example maximum steering angle and summon distance) that until removed or changed will always limit it's performance.
e.g I suspect a big part of why roundabouts are so troublesome is that negotiating them requires a steering angle that exceeds the allowable one within the law.
e.g I suspect a big part of why roundabouts are so troublesome is that negotiating them requires a steering angle that exceeds the allowable one within the law.
I think things are moving very quickly in some regions wrt legislation. imho, the biggest issue will be Tesla's approach to releasing updates - legislation is very unlikely to allow autonomous updates to be released without serious testing and serious testing takes time and I think Tesla will need to change their approach to how they release FSD changes in some jurisdictions to meet the more formal approval rules.
I personally have no problem with that and actually think it will be a good thing for self driving features to be tested against criteria. That will probably bring its own benefits, such as changes in responsibility and insurance risk.
I wonder about the logic being applied here - when I previously bought any of my conventional ICE cars, from many different auto manufacturers, which did not offer features such as ABS brakes, sat navigation etc., I did not expect that years later when these technologies were provided on newer models I should get them all provided indefinitely for free as automatic upgrades? In the 9 months I have owned my Tesla it has been provided for free with more range, more acceleration and a wide range of other functionality improvements via over the air software updates. Never seen that with any other car I have owned.
But then, its not like other technology companies ever change their products and hardware standards that require customers to eventually adapt their expectations and upgrade. Can you imagine Apple ever selling laptops without USB A ports or CD drives? Oh no, wait ...
Now I may be pessimistic and cynical here, but I think in that 9 months you've probably seen the bulk of the changes you're going to see for the next 3-4 years. Why do I say that? Because when it was new there were of course fancy things they could do like the extra power etc.
But now it's a fair bit mature, I think we'll just see a lot of fiddling round the edges... glovebox pin anyone? Yes I'm sure there may be a few others bits, but I wouldn't expect anything radical or particular big anytime soon.
Sure the FSD might some day actually be able to do FSD, but that ones been baking for years, and only going to actually be properly FSD for those who paid the money.
Yes Tesla is different to everyone else. And yes, early days doing an over the air update to give 5% more power was cool. But unfortunately that doesn't happen every week/month/year, and I suspect most of the big cool stuff has been done now.
I think the bottom line is that you buy the car for what it is at the time of purchase and not on a promise that it will get better over time like some do for example like promises of apple play coming in future which is absurd when their older generation/fossils already have it.
I bought My Ring floodcam mainly on a promise that there was going to be apple HomeKit support..about 3 years on and I believe they are still promising it but chances are that Ill need new hardware by then.
Whatever you get free after you purchased your car imho is a bonus and lets be fair here at the risk of sounding like a fanboy which by a long stretch I am not, Tesla have given the most.
There are many more things that can be done with the software alone in these cars. Be it user interface or otherwise.
The problem here is that some of us have more expectations than others...wake up and smell the coffee
There is clearly a whole lot of resource going into FSD right now but I would hope that once the major work is done some resources will be put back into updating and improving things like wipers, lights, speed limiter and TACC settings just to mention a few. They should be relatively easy by comparison
I think the bottom line is that you buy the car for what it is at the time of purchase and not on a promise that it will get better over time
The problem here is that some of us have more expectations than others...wake up and smell the coffee
That's pretty much my thinking, and indeed why I bought one a few weeks ago, but have the view I mentioned.
Equally though, if you're an optimist, rock on!
I would like to think that equal if not more resources are being put into the latter things you mention since its the more immediate.
FSD has a while to come yet and for the most part will be down to bureaucracy and human mentality.
FSD is already available and has been probably since the wheel was invented...its called a chauffeur
Imho, all this talk of FSD and how bad it works is beyond me and again imho a discussion that is way ahead of our time.
When FSD is able to take me and the family out and we can enjoy and good day out eating, drinking etc and bring us back legally, it can take my money. In the meantime, Ill just be responsible and drive the things since they sure are a nice driving experience to me
From todays Q3 2020 Update (source). Example of what the car now 'sees' but I suspect not what it will present in any visualisation [edit - its probably developer mode]. Possibly first visual clues of progress.
But it is an internal Neural Network understanding of the junction from 8 cameras including by looks of it, planned paths. 'City Streets' from FSD computer.
Apologies for poor quality screen grab.
More discussion, better images here - FSD rewrite will go out on Oct 20 to limited beta - tread carefully...
But it is an internal Neural Network understanding of the junction from 8 cameras including by looks of it, planned paths. 'City Streets' from FSD computer.
Apologies for poor quality screen grab.
More discussion, better images here - FSD rewrite will go out on Oct 20 to limited beta - tread carefully...
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