FSD back at sale prices

[Tam]

...I wonder how they are getting around this in the US...

I guess Tesla is pushing the envelope in the USA for Self Driving Capability: If the functions still require a licensed driver then there's no need for a new law: Such as: standard cruise that requires a driver who knows how to brake.

Then Tesla expands that principle to TACC. The system can brake while on cruise but sometimes the drive still needs to intervene.

Then Autosteer, then so on and so on.

My guess is Tesla Robotaxi will still be legal in the USA because it will still be "beta" that requires a licensed driver so it'll be "supervised Robotaxi" until the steering wheel and pedals will be eliminated.

Other countries are stricter maybe because they think it's a slippery slope between human and machine control and the line might be blurred: Who's driving the car now that Autopilot can brake and steer?

Thus, they might want to create new regulations for Autopilot such as German who first objected the Autopilot but it had to back down because it's under the European Union and had to follow European Union's rules.

Overall, I think scrutiny and cautions are good because I certainly do not want another Boeing 737 Max debacle!

 

[Techno-phile]

The WA authorities tell me that they are not stopping FSD features being rolled out (some National agency or other State agencies may be stopping them, of course). They want the FSD features here so data on safety can be built up. It would be good to hear what other State authorities say.

The National Transport Commission is asking for submissions NTC - National Transport Commission

I think it is purely that Tesla do not wish to release Navigate on Autopilot in too many jurisdictions, with different road markings and signage, yet. Maybe their neural net needs more experience with Australian conditions. The more driving we do the better.

Remember that even when we get Navigate on Autopilot, we will still be responsible and have to keep "hands on the wheel", and so will be subject to the existing Road regulations, until the safety data builds up sufficiently for the authorities to change the Rules.

 

[LDCRS]

Was browsing the NTC website and came across this very interesting link:

In-service safety for automated vehicles July 2019
https://www.ntc.gov.au/Media/Reports/(D748D1D0-7D93-C79D-CE5F-77A1D50111D3).pdf

That's 167 pages of some very in-depth reading. I haven't had the chance to go through it but just skimming through seems like the government is still in the process of forming a framework to regulate the industry. Lots of different stakeholders and lots of different risks. Towards the end it even outlines Policy developments in other countries also.

 

[paulp]

If I were buying a second hand car, and one had FSD (with HW3 or a free upgrade to HW3), and the other didn't, I know which I would pay more for!
Of course when exactly FSD will be delivered is uncertain, and it may just be a series of improvements and added features over an extended period of time.
I am on the early access programme so am looking forward to trying the features out when they become available.
As long as the car has its own licence before I am too old to have one.

Elon tweeted “V10 will include several games & infotainment features, improved highway Autopilot, better traffic light & stop sign recognition & Smart Summon." This is supposed to be for August release in USA at least.

Funny thing is, I know two people that bought a model s second hand privately, they had no idea about the current level of autopilot. I introduced both of them to it, and were they shocked! So not everyone pays more for such features. Besides, after 3 previous failed promises from tesla, I’m not convinced that V3 will do full self driving with no human interaction. If thats the case, then its worth nothing more to a buyer, as version 7 will be the one that matters.

 

[LDCRS]

I’m not convinced that V3 will do full self driving with no human interaction. If thats the case, then its worth nothing more to a buyer, as version 7 will be the one that matters.

Do you mean HW3?

I feel as that the number of price increases in FSD is indication that the FSD feature release is imminent. However FSD without human interaction is years away.

I'm guessing the decision tree on whether you want to pay for FSD comes down to a few questions:
- how long do think think it will be when FSD is released here?
- will you still own the car?
IF NO
- do you think FSD price will increase?
- When you sell your car do you think someone else will see the value in FSD feature enabled?

 

[Candleflame]

The WA authorities (at least) want to see FSD available as soon as possible. But we will certainly still have to drive the car initially, in the sense of being responsible and having hands on wheels.
They have a unit following progress but will only allow transfer of responsibility from the driver to the car when the data showed that driving with FSD is sufficiently safer than without. This will have to demonstrated under Australian conditions also.
Is anybody talking to the authorities in other States? Several owners in Perth have taken the top officers from the relevant authorities on two drive days in the last year.
Even if you sell a car before all FSD is available or before you can legally take your hands off, the car should be worth more to the buyer.

WA has always been pro-driver. You'd think that they'd be like the NT with open speed limits and easy registration of any cars but I guess in the populated area in the west its too unsafe and in the outback noone cares given that they have hardly any cameras and everyone can just get a radar detector.

 

[Grenadine]

Radar detectors aren't illegal in WA?

 

[Techno-phile]

https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...riving-australia-s-mines-20190411-p51dd2.html

Miners in the Pilbara have been using autonomous trucks for five years!

 

[LDCRS]

Not sure how many millions of lines of code it would be for a geo-fenced autonomous mining truck but it's definitely going to be substantially less than the 'modern luxury vehicle'. I'd guess it would be somewhere around the 10-20 million mark at a pure guess.

 

[paulp]

Not sure how many millions of lines of code it would be for a geo-fenced autonomous mining truck but it's definitely going to be substantially less than the 'modern luxury vehicle'. I'd guess it would be somewhere around the 10-20 million mark at a pure guess.

View attachment 435948

I suspect the amount of code lines in modern jetliners in about to increase.

 

[LDCRS]

I suspect the amount of code lines in modern jetliners in about to increase.

Touche

 

[Techno-phile]

Got any ideas who are the actual people in charge of autonomy in VIC? More than happy to contact them and find out more about how far along the process we are...

My guess is even with FSD enabled - it will be several years of FSD with 'hands on wheel' before the governing bodies even allow L4.

Obviously us over year are lagging at 1-2 years behind the what they get in the US. I'm hoping NoA will be coming to us before end of the year however not sure the 'Sale Price' for EAP to FSD upgrade is worth it right now. I'd probably invest the $4300 in TSLA shares and sit on that for the next year (or however long) that we are actually waiting for FSD to come out. Might come out ahead!

My contact in WA advises: Ashley Cook from the Victorian Department of Economic Development, Jobs, Transport and Resources would love to explore the offer of the Tesla driving experience, and is happy for your counterparts to contact him.

 

[LDCRS]

My contact in WA advises: Ashley Cook from the Victorian Department of Economic Development, Jobs, Transport and Resources would love to explore the offer of the Tesla driving experience, and is happy for your counterparts to contact him.

Cheers mate. Will get in contact with them!

Did a bit more reading into the NTC's Regulation Impact Statement and found the following:

"We have prepared this consultation RIS to gather evidence and facilitate consultation with the community. We are seeking submissions on this consultation RIS by 26 August 2019. We will consider feedback and evidence provided through submissions in developing the decision RIS, which will include a final analysis of the options for the in-service safety of automated vehicles. We will deliver our recommendations and the decision RIS for transport ministers to consider in May 2020. Once a preferred approach is agreed, we will consider detailed compliance and enforcement options, including specific powers of the regulator to support any new obligations, and sanctions and penalties."

 

[BenT]

Listening to a tesal podcast today I heard the comment that Elon had recently said that there were no regulatory issues with FSD around the world except in Europe. I suspect this is because most governments havent even come up with legislation yet to handle this. Hopefully Elon can get FSD to Australia before the regulators catch up.

 

[paulp]

Listening to a tesal podcast today I heard the comment that Elon had recently said that there were no regulatory issues with FSD around the world except in Europe. I suspect this is because most governments havent even come up with legislation yet to handle this. Hopefully Elon can get FSD to Australia before the regulators catch up.

I wouldnt be believing Elon on that one. We dont have proper summon because the authorities consider it unsafe.

 

[m3y3addict]

Radar detectors aren't illegal in WA?

No, although there was a period when it was being contemplated in WA! at that time every time I got pulled over for a ' license check' I got quizzed about the radar detector as if I had criminal intent. The other issue I found was that its really hard to wash off speed when the thing pings so you may still get caught especially in hilly, serpentine areas (at least I was no longer 40km/hr over but still got done for 11 over!).
Ultimately someone smashed a window and stole it when I forgot to remove it from the dash one night. The police were not very interested sadly. I never replaced it as I found it was less stressful just keeping to the speed limits (most of the time).

 

[BenT]

Miners in the Pilbara have been using autonomous trucks for five years!

Like this one?

 

[meowsers]

I wouldnt be believing Elon on that one. We dont have proper summon because the authorities consider it unsafe.

I wonder how much of the onus is on the operator though. A car may have a feature that doesn't comply with the local legislation, but you as a driver would be responsible.

 

[paulp]

I wonder how much of the onus is on the operator though. A car may have a feature that doesn't comply with the local legislation, but you as a driver would be responsible.

Problem is that so many drivers are not even close to behaving in a manner that is responsible

 

[LDCRS]

Tesla hiking prices for "Full Self-Driving" by $1,000 for some owners.

So apparently EAP to FSD upgrade is going to increase by $1000 on August 16.

That would translate to roughly $5500 AUD....for basically nothing extra at this point in time nor the foreseeable future in Australia anyway