FSD Beta 10.11

[AlanSubie4Life]

On 10.11.2 I've been reporting bugs when going around corners. I sometimes want to accelerate FSD Beta more aggressively through the corners than it likes, so I press the accelerator, since it's dawdling. Apparently there's a hard limit on the g forces allowed, so this results in the car wildly veering across the roadway (there are no lane markings on these streets in a commercial area) into the opposing lane as it attempts to make the turn, but not turn too tightly (so if I'm making a right turn onto a road it ends up veering into oncoming traffic on that road - of course there is no oncoming traffic, as I would never attempt this with traffic around). Then subsequently it overcorrects and veers towards the curb on the inside of the turn (at which point I just take over).

Anyway, seems like undesirable behavior with accelerator override. Seems like Tesla may need to allow for more aggressive maneuvers with the steering when the driver is applying override acceleration (I'm doing this nearly all the time, of course, as most FSD Beta users likely are, in order to allow usable stop sign/intersection behavior). This is a special case when turning, and obviously it's not a huge deal since the car would probably make the corner fine if left to its own devices, but it's still pretty annoying.

Alternatively, they could just drive a bit more aggressively based on the set speed I'm using, and my autopilot preferences, so I don't have to override the vehicle. Apparently the aggressive setting doesn't increase the turning g forces allowed.

I'm not talking about driving insanely fast here or anything, either. It's just briskly turning a corner, something I might not do with some people in the car, but it would depend on the person. The resultant behavior with the slow turning does have the external appearance of being insane, though.

Maybe someday!

 

[Ramphex]

Interesting how we went from revisions every couple of weeks to every couple of months. Tesla gave us a pacifier to shut us up

 

[nvx1977]

Light reflection / leakage issues ?

no way that can happen. inconceivable!

On 10.11.2 I've been reporting bugs when going around corners. I sometimes want to accelerate FSD Beta more aggressively through the corners than it likes, so I press the accelerator, since it's dawdling.

[snip]

I'm not talking about driving insanely fast here or anything, either. It's just briskly turning a corner, something I might not do with some people in the car, but it would depend on the person. The resultant behavior with the slow turning does have the external appearance of being insane, though.

Maybe someday!

come on, now. It's clear from your profile pic that your definition of "insanely fast" is skewed. Drifting is not supported by FSD beta.

 

[sleepydoc]

On 10.11.2 I've been reporting bugs when going around corners. I sometimes want to accelerate FSD Beta more aggressively through the corners than it likes, so I press the accelerator, since it's dawdling. Apparently there's a hard limit on the g forces allowed, so this results in the car wildly veering across the roadway (there are no lane markings on these streets in a commercial area) into the opposing lane as it attempts to make the turn, but not turn too tightly (so if I'm making a right turn onto a road it ends up veering into oncoming traffic on that road - of course there is no oncoming traffic, as I would never attempt this with traffic around). Then subsequently it overcorrects and veers towards the curb on the inside of the turn (at which point I just take over).

Anyway, seems like undesirable behavior with accelerator override. Seems like Tesla may need to allow for more aggressive maneuvers with the steering when the driver is applying override acceleration (I'm doing this nearly all the time, of course, as most FSD Beta users likely are, in order to allow usable stop sign/intersection behavior). This is a special case when turning, and obviously it's not a huge deal since the car would probably make the corner fine if left to its own devices, but it's still pretty annoying.

Alternatively, they could just drive a bit more aggressively based on the set speed I'm using, and my autopilot preferences, so I don't have to override the vehicle. Apparently the aggressive setting doesn't increase the turning g forces allowed.

I'm not talking about driving insanely fast here or anything, either. It's just briskly turning a corner, something I might not do with some people in the car, but it would depend on the person. The resultant behavior with the slow turning does have the external appearance of being insane, though.

Maybe someday!

or maybe it's going slower because it needs that time to process and calculate the trajectory so when you accelerate too much it can't adjust. Things like estimating and planning a turning path are second nature to us but something they're still working out from a programming perspective.

Interesting how we went from revisions every couple of weeks to every couple of months. Tesla gave us a pacifier to shut us up

My assumption was that the revisions are getting more difficult. Essentially the easy fixes have been done.

I know they're also working on a major rewrite and combining the FSD and AP stacks. That takes a lot of time and resources, too.

 

[tmoz]

or maybe it's going slower because it needs that time to process and calculate the trajectory so when you accelerate too much it can't adjust. Things like estimating and planning a turning path are second nature to us but something they're still working out from a programming perspective.


My assumption was that the revisions are getting more difficult. Essentially the easy fixes have been done.

I know they're also working on a major rewrite and combining the FSD and AP stacks. That takes a lot of time and resources, too.

By major rewrite, you mean something mostly unrelated to combining the stacks?
When you say you know that, is that speculation or do you have inside info?

 

[jabloomf1230]

Interesting how we went from revisions every couple of weeks to every couple of months. Tesla gave us a pacifier to shut us up

I would think that this progression is normal. At the beginning of the beta, there was a lot of things that were broken. It was necessary to provide a lot of updates.

 

[Jeff N]

My assumption was that the revisions are getting more difficult. Essentially the easy fixes have been done.

I understand what you are saying, but I still see lots of things that are “easy” fixes that need to be done. My assumption is that they are prioritizing difficult foundational work and safety-critical fixes.

As the new core rewrite and stack merge settles down , I actually expect some quicker improvements to begin rolling out again for those “easy fixes” that would improve passenger comfort: avoiding strong acceleration while turning, smarter lane change planning, smoother steering during normal driving, smoother speed adjustments due to speed limit changes, avoiding lane changes within intersections, staying out of the blind spots around other nearby vehicles, giving advanced on-screen warning about planned lane changes, better interaction with the human “safety driver” on lane changes and lane change timing, etc.

 

[EVNow]

(I'm doing this nearly all the time, of course, as most FSD Beta users likely are, in order to allow usable stop sign/intersection behavior).

Its diametrically opposite to what a lot of us have been saying. FSD takes turns too fast.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Its diametrically opposite to what a lot of us have been saying. FSD takes turns too fast.

The part you quoted was not a discussion about turning. I didn’t say I was always using the accelerator to push through corners. There are a few issues:

1) Very slow on starts/intersections. Constant accelerator override needed. We’re trying to get somewhere!

2) Often approaches corners too fast when on arterial and turning onto side street. This is not the same as taking a corner too fast. (Results in discomfort and high jerk prior to the turn.)

3) In stated situation, it is an extremely wide street with wide easy corners and the car is simply taking it too slowly for my liking. The speed limits are not high 25-30mph - the corner can be taken easily without slowing significantly. It slows down unnecessarily requiring an override. If too much override it’ll flail all over the road as described. This is a bug; it should steer correctly, within the handling limits of the vehicle.

Here’s the turn (turning right onto Silverton). This was at night so there were no parked vehicles or traffic. So much room.

I was wrong - there actually is a marked centerline on Silverton which the car veered across. (It was night and it’s pretty worn and I wasn’t paying attention to that - or perhaps it has been paved over since this imaging.)

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

I think we can all agree that taking this corner at 20-25mph is not an issue, at all.

Anyway you guys should try some “aggressive” accelerator application around quiet corners (no traffic please!) using FSD Beta - just override the vehicle a bit. Should not be hard to reproduce. Hang on tight to that wheel.

 

[sleepydoc]

Its diametrically opposite to what a lot of us have been saying. FSD takes turns too fast.

turns or curves? IME it's too slow and hesitant in turns. The stuttering has improved significantly in 11.2 but when pulling out in traffic it is too slow.

 

[EVNow]

In stated situation, it is an extremely wide street with wide easy corners and the car is simply taking it too slowly for my liking. The speed limits are not high 25-30mph - the corner can be taken easily without slowing significantly. It slows down unnecessarily requiring an override. If too much override it’ll flail all over the road as described. This is a bug; it should steer correctly, within the handling limits of the vehicle.

I guess few press the accelerator to take faster turns. Most would press the accelerator to make it stop hesitating and go.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I guess few press the accelerator to take faster turns. Most would press the accelerator to make it stop hesitating and go.

I mean, essentially that is what I was doing - overriding to take the corner at a natural speed. Though in this case I will admit I was trying to keep up with @Daniel in SD ; didn’t want to get humiliated by an AWD. So probably a bit overcooked (with predictable results).

That being said, I’ve seen this on occasion before at my unprotected left where I have to gently override accelerator to make it make the turn faster. And then it veers all over the road in the merge lane, crossing double yellow, etc.. I’ve posted locations of this previously.

It’s pretty routine for it to take corners too slowly though. Particularly ones where it has to stop first.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I just checked on my way to work. On 5/7 corners I had to apply accelerator override to get it to move fast enough. Of those five corners, two had lead cars. In both cases even with accelerator application I still fell far behind that traffic.

I think that is the best metric - does the vehicle keep up with turning traffic consistently, particularly from a stop? If not, while still maintaining safe following distance, it is creating a hazard to other road users. Override is required. Gentle override typically does not lead to steering errors, of course. But if I had tried to keep up with lead traffic not sure what would have happened.

On the plus side it successfully navigated all the corners. Today. Got lucky!

 

[VanFriscia]

I guess few press the accelerator to take faster turns. Most would press the accelerator to make it stop hesitating and go.

I do for both situations. On particularly curvy country roads (sometimes so curvy that they're practically turns), FSD has improved but still doesn't drive quite naturally. It often goes too slow for my tastes (and I wouldn't at all consider myself a speedy or aggressive driver), and despite going slow, will also often cross the double yellow line. I mostly let it do its thing if no other cars are around. Otherwise, I'll sometimes give it a nudge or just take over.

 

[Supcom]

I do for both situations. On particularly curvy country roads (sometimes so curvy that they're practically turns), FSD has improved but still doesn't drive quite naturally. It often goes too slow for my tastes (and I wouldn't at all consider myself a speedy or aggressive driver), and despite going slow, will also often cross the double yellow line. I mostly let it do its thing if no other cars are around. Otherwise, I'll sometimes give it a nudge or just take over.

I use the accelerator on occasion, especially when FSD beta pulls into the middle of an intersection and just stops. But, I don't use the accelerator to blast around corners and my car has never veered wildly around a corner.

Subtle is how I would describe it.

 

[Z_Lynx]

With one slanty back road intersection, the car takes the turn (either right or left) slowing to 8 mph.

I am happy with this speed since it is running a stop sign and gives me just enough time to check traffic before speeding away

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

But, I don't use the accelerator to blast around corners and my car has never veered wildly around a corner.

I’ve previously posted a couple videos of the car making a beeline for the curb after the corner, when taking a corner with no accelerator input. Prior build though. Haven’t seen that lately; seems to be fixed most of the time.

I definitely feel like people should drive a bit more aggressively to bring out this bug - in 100% safe situations of course (no other vehicles or pedestrians).

It’s almost like people don’t believe me - but of course I am not making it up, and it definitely will happen (it’s not surprising that it does of course - it’s kind of what you would expect - Tesla is saying: well, you are jamming the accelerator, you have your big boy pants on, so I won’t worry about getting the steering right, and do some lazy turns).

Anyway easy to reproduce, just be careful out there.

 

[aronth5]

What is with the increasing bad behavior by 10.11.2? Tried to run 2 red lights tonight on very simple intersections. Lots of other new odd behavior I've never seen before. Just have to hope 10.12 comes to the rescue.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Having been running 10.11.2 for a bit now, aside from the AWFUL lane changes and blinker use, it’s been pretty decent. Much better than previous versions. I actually feel pretty comfortable using it MOST of the times. Still some “wtf” moments, but in all, not bad. I do reluctantly bid it a farewell as of this coming Saturday, as my new Y shows up with FSD paid in full, alas, no beta for who knows how long ... Thems the breaks. Guess I’ll just drive this around for fun in the meantime:

 

[EVNow]

What is with the increasing bad behavior by 10.11.2? Tried to run 2 red lights tonight on very simple intersections. Lots of other new odd behavior I've never seen before. Just have to hope 10.12 comes to the rescue.

Calibration ?