FSD Beta 10.11

[Supcom]

Longer drive on 10.11.2 this morning. Did about 120 miles round trip on mostly 2-lane high speed roads. The resulted in a combination of FSD beta when in the city limits and NOA when not.

NOA impressions: NOA was almost flawless. I had no phantom braking despite being on a road with a LOT of 18-wheeler traffic coming the other direction. NOA just ignored it all. I did have two significant issues. One was that NOA still wants to slow way down (stop?) for a flashing yellow light strung above the road. This has been an issue for a while and NOA needs to get over it and keep going. The other issue was NOA taking an exit off a divided highway at 80 mph and showing no sign of slowing for an upcoming stop sign before I finally hit the brakes myself.

I also noticed NOA wandering slightly within its lane. This surprised me as NOA has always maintained great centering. I noticed a slight weaving at times. Not so much that NOA acted drunk! but still noticeable to me. It likely appeared more human-like than normal as most people drift around a bit.

FSD beta impressions: This version of FSD beta is a mixed bag for me. On one hand, it's making turns more smoothly and handling stop signs much better. It's more assertive to take its turn when there are other vehicles, but sometimes too aggressive. I had FSD beta enter the intersection when another car was already moving through. Once I let it stop on its own. The other I had to disengage.

10.11.2 is worse than 10.10.2 in mistakenly taking left and right turn lanes. It does this at intersections where it should be in a straight lane and also will prematurely take a turn lane when just driving down a street. The former is often self-corrected. The latter requires corrective steering and disengagement.

Phantom braking, which was all but non-existent for me on FSD beta, has become a real issue. Twice now, I've had 10.11.2 perform heavy braking as it was about to pass a green light with no obstacles. I've also had multiple other PB events just driving along with no apparent cause. Curiously, these were all on city streets at 50 mph or less. On higher speed roads, using FSD beta, I had no PB events.

I've noticed FSD beta changing lanes a bit more aggressively (set to average) and pulls into a lane with a car closer behind than in the past. I'd almost say that FSD beta cuts off other cars. There is always clearance, but it does set up a bad situation for a PB event, which has happened to me on this version of FSD beta.

Finally, I had two Red Wheel of Death incidents. The first one stated "cruise control unavailable" but, after taking over, I was able to reengage a few seconds later. The second popped up but went away before I had time to reassert control and FSD beta stayed engaged. I did not lose visualizations in either incident.

tl;dr: There are some incremental improvements with this software version, but some regressions that are very disappointing.

 

[Phlier]

Interesting that you guys are widely reporting turn signal wonkiness.

I've posted in the past that my car has played with the blinkers like a baby with a new rattle since I got into the Beta during the first round of Safety Score additions. Since not many others posted similar experiences, I just glossed it over by thinking I must have an odd hardware config in my car, as others weren't reporting similar behavior... at least, not nearly this widespread.

I've only done a quick five mile drive on 10.11.2, but honestly my blinkers are behaving just as they have since I first got in the Beta last October; it's almost like the bug that wasn't often seen in other cars due to different hardware configs has now moved on to affecting a wider variety of cars.

At first, I tried to correct its erroneous turn signal issue by attempting to countermand it with the turn signal stalk. The results were about like you'd expect... I just made it worse. All you can really do is just shake your head and let it play with the blinker until it's done. Any attempt to correct the behavior will just result in even more flashing lights, serving to just further confuse/frustrate/amuse your fellow drivers.

I've pushed the report button for every erroneous turn signal event my car has ever generated. Maybe we all need to get on board with doing the same... flood them with data so they're made aware of it.

Another really annoying thing it's doing now... It'll get into the "suicide lane" and turn on the left turn signal waaaaaay before the upcoming intersection's dedicated left turn lane. If your car does this, please pay extra close attention! Many drivers will simply switch lanes into dedicated turn lanes as soon as the pavement markings change to denote the turn lane (if that made sense... hope it does) and won't check their side view mirrors, as (in theory, at least) there shouldn't be anyone in that lane yet. My Model 3 has surprised a few drivers by already being in that lane. Yes, I know I shouldn't allow the car to do this, and we could argue all day about whether or not I'm going over many people's safety limits by doing so. But having said that, I'm sure there will be a few people that just won't be able to resist hitting the reply button. IMO, I can do this safely, and the situation needs to play out to the point where hitting the report button will provide the Mother Ship with the entire situation. Yes, there are other situations that are too unsafe to let the events play out, and it is the responsibility of everyone to use their own good judgment as to their own safety limits for testing.

@VanFriscia Don't be too hard on @AlanSubie4Life . He's been here a very long time, and has been an irreplaceable source of extremely valuable information about all things battery and range related. It's easy to get frustrated with the lack of recent progress, and everyone has a moment of frustration from time to time... let's let Alan have his for a minute, OK? Especially since he's not one of those guys that just joins the board to stir the pot without contributing anything of value along the way.

 

[JulienW]

Just got 10.11.2 yesterday and it can finally do a zero disengagement drive on my puny 1.1 miles commute again, without aiming for the curb like every time it does in 10.10.2. Still too close though. Also this is the first version I felt overall improvement than previous one in its first drive, it usually comes out a few days later, like having a break-in period. Hopefully a good sign.

The only degeneration I can say is the longer slowdown due to the misplaced roadside trashcans at a curve, thanks to the “superior” vision only system.

About once every Beta I get my nerve up to allow this turn. While so far my wheels have survived my teeth and blood pressure take a beating.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

But I'd hardly call it garbage.

I guess it depends on whether I want to be able to use it with my wife in the car! Don’t shoot the messenger, man! When I can use it without her noticing that I am not providing the control inputs to the DDT, then I promise not to call it garbage!

FSD is great as a toy (one of the reasons I bought it), but it is just that right now.

Is it possible it could be useful some day? Maybe. I am not sure.

To be clear, my feeling is that several recent releases have actually been quite usable (not to be confused with useful!), and clear improvements over what we had in early fall (notably the car would now often (not always!) react to things well outside the range of the visualization); this was the first major regression in a while. Maybe I just got unlucky on this drive, but I suspect not, given the behaviors I observed. So that’s the reason I called it garbage.

Briefly: phantom braking, sudden braking, spurious signaling, excessive lane changing, jerky cornering, inability to enter correct lane on right hand turn, late reaction to someone changing into target lane. Some of these behaviors probably could have happened on prior builds too.

 

[Iain]

I guess it depends on whether I want to be able to use it with my wife in the car! Don’t shoot the messenger, man! When I can use it without her noticing that I am not driving, then I promise not to call it garbage!

FSD is great as a toy (one of the reasons I bought it), but it is just that right now.

Is it possible it could be useful some day? Maybe. I am not sure.

To be clear, my feeling is that several recent releases have actually been quite usable (not to be confused with useful!), and clear improvements over what we had in early fall (notably the car would now often (not always!) react to things well outside the range of the visualization); this was the first major regression in a while. Maybe I just got unlucky on this drive, but I suspect not, given the behaviors I observed. So that’s the reason I called it garbage.

Briefly: phantom braking, sudden braking, spurious signaling, excessive lane changing, jerky cornering, inability to enter correct lane on right hand turn, late reaction to someone changing into target lane. Some others probably could have happened on prior builds too.

I honestly think it will never drive like we are used to. I think we will get used to how it drives over time. The stupid stuff like changing lanes for no reason will get sorted out, but it will always make abrupt decisions and corrections. My feeling is that will make it safer than us, in the future. ( we are slow and sluggish compared to it)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

( we are slow and sluggish compared to it)

Not yet we aren’t! I’m far far faster at reacting than it is. Now…is it more reliable at noticing hazards…much harder to say. In a general sense, overall, in all scenarios, obviously I am much more reliable too, at the current time.

Humans are amazing, as long as they are paying attention.

 

[Iain]

Not yet we aren’t! I’m far far faster at reacting than it is. Now…is it more reliable at noticing hazards…much harder to say.

I lost my ninja skills around age 59. I'm glad you have yours still

 

[Charliek]

just got 10.11.2. from 10.10.2 so I can see some significant differences. I have a 2017 MS AP3 setup ( new cameras and all that) so far for me it is a bit of a regression so far on unmarked suburban streets. The display is definitely less jerkier, the turns are smoother, less back an forth of the wheel during indecision times. which I found the trick of giving it a little accelerations when it is " thinking" to help it stabilize ( sort of like telling a teenager " its okay , go ahead..." ) . I had two autopilot unavailable" red hands situations on unmarked roads it used todo fine ( which is new ( not due to anything I did ) . I am hoping it is because I didn't go many miles for it to settle in yet ( in previous incarnations going many years back you had to wait about 15 -20 miles for it to stabilize) . I'll be going on longer drives this weekend.

one of the coolest things I observed was I was going down a medium size straight 4 lane road with a median and a bicycist was hugging the white line in traffic in the right lane . The car slid over with turn signal on but not entirely into the next lane and went past him giving him plenty of space and then went back into the lane. it did a slowing maneuver to an appropriate passing speed ( not heavy breaking) and then resumed the speed I had set ( no mashing the accelerator). some thing like down to 28 from 48 there was even cars in the left lane and it took that into account! I could not have executed it better myself !.. there was a little bit of " pucker factor" while I let it do the maneuver but it did great!. This ability may have been in previous FSD beta load but it was a first for me having this situation. Im Impressed!. if I can see if I can get my unmarked neighbor hood roads back to snuff. i'll be back to 100% point to point in FSD!

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

-Turns are more assertive, smoother.
-Phantom braking SEEMS better, but I’ve got some good routes planned to really test it.
-head scratching use of turn signals, very odd behavior.
-poor lane choices (still).
-still waits too long to enter the correct lane. I let it do it’s thing a lot today, and it worked, just too late for my liking.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I'm curious about what other peoples convictions are with 4 way stops?

I'm at the point where I'm convinced that the code simply doesn't have the required logic to wait its turn before starting to go.

Like today going to work it stopped okay (a little late/fast for my taste, but stopped at the line). But, then it didn't wait for a truck to the left to go like it should have and I quickly stopped it.

It's had the same behavior in previous versions where it simply tries to go out of turn.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

-head scratching use of turn signals, very odd behavior.

I sent the FSD beta team an email about it, and I also submitted a lot of samples.

It was already bad in previous versions, but in my case it will prevent me from testing it.

I'll sit this one out.

 

[momo3605]

I'm curious about what other peoples convictions are with 4 way stops?

I'm at the point where I'm convinced that the code simply doesn't have the required logic to wait its turn before starting to go.

Like today going to work it stopped okay (a little late/fast for my taste, but stopped at the line). But, then it didn't wait for a truck to the left to go like it should have and I quickly stopped it.

It's had the same behavior in previous versions where it simply tries to go out of turn.

Lol my experience is the opposite. It will stop for other cars whether they get there before or right after you. So while other cars are waiting for you to go, FSD is just chillin. I have to use the gas to go almost every time

 

[EVNow]

So, the largest rollout day is 8 days after initial rollout. This late of a further rollout is very surprising. Definitely different from earlier rollouts. No new testers yet, though.

 

[sleepydoc]

Downloaded 11.2 this morning, I've taken a couple drives with it and my experiences mirror the other comments:
Turns are smoother
Less hesitation with turns; it doesn't 'creep' out and just sit in the traffic lane trying to decide if it should turn or not.
Blinkers are worse
Lane selection actually seems to be worse than it was in 10.2. I'm not sure how they managed this but I had one turn lane that was fixed form 10.2 and several new places where it can figure out how to drive straight. Seriously? Come on, Tesla. This is getting old.

Overall, the smoother turning is nice but is more than negated by the problems with constantly veering into turn lanes when it needs to go straight. Hopefully things improve with a bit of experience but my initial impressions aren't terribly good.

 

[generalmilk]

Just got 10.11.2 yesterday and it can finally do a zero disengagement drive on my puny 1.1 miles commute again, without aiming for the curb like every time it does in 10.10.2. Still too close though. Also this is the first version I felt overall improvement than previous one in its first drive, it usually comes out a few days later, like having a break-in period. Hopefully a good sign.

The only degeneration I can say is the longer slowdown due to the misplaced roadside trashcans at a curve, thanks to the “superior” vision only system.

Lol, now I’m convinced it’s not getting better at this curb. I was simply too scared to let it go in 10.10.2. The false confidence from the first attempt on 10.11.2 almost cost my wheel at the second attempt.

 

[SK360]

I have to drive 3000 miles round trip to Texas next week… I’m considering if I want to continue being a valuable source of data or opt out and get my radar back. 10.11.2 was less than impressive today.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Lol, now I’m convinced it’s not getting better at this curb. I was simply too scared to let it go in 10.10.2. The false confidence from the first attempt on 10.11.2 almost cost my wheel at the second attempt.

Thanks for posting. Will make me be extra vigilant. What is it about this curb that makes it do this? It seems relatively innocuous and not that sharp so surprised it fails so badly. Generally I’ve not had problems with curbs, though I am always on the lookout and sometimes intervene when it seems close and it makes a lunge for one (so maybe I do have problems with curbs).

 

[Supcom]

I'm curious about what other peoples convictions are with 4 way stops?

I'm at the point where I'm convinced that the code simply doesn't have the required logic to wait its turn before starting to go.

Like today going to work it stopped okay (a little late/fast for my taste, but stopped at the line). But, then it didn't wait for a truck to the left to go like it should have and I quickly stopped it.

It's had the same behavior in previous versions where it simply tries to go out of turn.

I see the same problem. Curious because previous versions it was the opposite. The car was too timid and would not proceed until there were no cars in the intersection.

 

[BBTX]

What is it about this curb that makes it do this? It seems relatively innocuous and not that sharp so surprised it fails so badly.

My WAG from the video is that the concrete color and the bright sun are factors. Before the corner there's high contrast between the blacktop and the lighter curb concrete, but then right at the turn the concrete suddenly runs out into the road surface a bit, and in the bright light it might have trouble telling where the raised part of the true curb even starts, depending on shadows mostly.

That setup is probably less common in some areas than others, and hopefully it will get better at this stuff over time. Even a distracted or careless human might get slightly confused there in the right situation and lighting; they should probably paint it in general.

 

[Itsuo-DC]

My WAG from the video is that the concrete color and the bright sun are factors. Before the corner there's high contrast between the blacktop and the lighter curb concrete, but then right at the turn the concrete suddenly runs out into the road surface a bit, and in the bright light it might have trouble telling where the raised part of the true curb even starts, depending on shadows mostly.

That setup is probably less common in some areas than others, and hopefully it will get better at this stuff over time. Even a distracted or careless human might get slightly confused there in the right situation and lighting; they should probably paint it in general.

I/FSD Beta cracked a rear rim late last year on a similar looking high curb. It was in the median and in crossing the median and turning onto the main Ave. my front wheel cleared it but it was too tight for the rear.... All to say you're right to be nervous. Also I never considered the color may have been a factor.