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FSD Beta 10.12.2 Expanding to 100k Cars! and 10.13 News

This afternoon, Elon tweeted announcing that 10.12.2 is now being released to 100k cars - and based on a lot of new threads being published today, it looks like a decent number of new owners have been finally accepted into the beta!
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In addition to this, he shared the new improvements for 10.13, most importantly being long lefts (which many here on TMC have had issues with) and starting to handle roads without any map data. He claims that within a few months, FSD will be able to navigate to a GPS point w/o any map data.


Some first impressions from new testers:
 
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In addition to this, he shared the new improvements for 10.13, most importantly being long lefts (which many here on TMC have had issues with) and starting to handle roads without any map data.

Yup, I have been one of those people suffering from long left turns ever since FSD rolled out. HOWEVER, today with 10.12.2 update, I was surprised to see it work perfectly on a very long left with heavy traffic that has never worked in the past. Perfhaps 10.13 works in even more situations.
 
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I have had FSD10.12 for several days now and see little improvement. It has already had at least 2 phantom braking episodes on city streets, which I did not have before, and it has made a left turn at an intersection and driven over a raised median in the middle of the left turn. It is still herky-jerky and drives like a drunk driver.I do not think it will be long before we are pulled by the police for suspect drunk driving.

It makes terrible lane change decisions because it is not planning far enough ahead with navigation. I consider it to be more dangerous on city streets than a drunk driver. And it still uses the turn signal when there is simply a bend on the road.

I love it on the highway though, but I have not used FSD 10.12 on the highway yet.
 
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I have had FSD10.12 for several days now and see little improvement. It has already had at least 2 phantom braking episodes on city streets, which I did not have before, and it has made a left turn at an intersection and driven over a raised median in the middle of the left turn. It is still herky-jerky and drives like a drunk driver.I do not think it will be long before we are pulled by the police for suspect drunk driving.

It makes terrible lane change decisions because it is not planning far enough ahead with navigation. I consider it to be more dangerous on city streets than a drunk driver. And it still uses the turn signal when there is simply a bend on the road.

I love it on the highway though, but I have not used FSD 10.12 on the highway yet.
I just got it yesterday (new user) but have not done any highway driving yet, and won't for a few days. Has the highway "FSD" been changed as well? I thought beta FSD just added use on city streets and that the highway 'stack' was not changed...
 
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Just got it on Saturday. Took my first drive with it on Sunday morning. It totally failed on an unprotected left hand turn (with ZERO traffic!) and when I tapped the accelerator, it then tried to drive in the turning lane. Also drove over the (sloped) curb when navigating roundabouts. Was less than impressed with my first drive.

This morning, though, I engaged FSD after I backed out of my driveway, and it took my all the way to work (over 50 miles) with ZERO interventions...although it DID decide to go through a yellow that turned red, so that wasn't great. But other than the one fail (right at the end), it performed FANTASTIC through the entire drive! It also eliminated a problem with a phantom stop sign that I was having pre-beta. Can't wait to see how the software improves over time!
 
I have had FSD10.12 for several days now and see little improvement. It has already had at least 2 phantom braking episodes on city streets, which I did not have before, and it has made a left turn at an intersection and driven over a raised median in the middle of the left turn. It is still herky-jerky and drives like a drunk driver.I do not think it will be long before we are pulled by the police for suspect drunk driving.

It makes terrible lane change decisions because it is not planning far enough ahead with navigation. I consider it to be more dangerous on city streets than a drunk driver. And it still uses the turn signal when there is simply a bend on the road.

I love it on the highway though, but I have not used FSD 10.12 on the highway yet.
You never will use FSD Beta on the highway, until they unify the software stack (hopefully soon!). FSD beta ONLY works on city streets currently, when you get on the highway, it reverts back to the regular "Navigate on Autopilot" software. You should notice a difference in the graphics when the transition happens. BTW, while my initial drive wasn't great, my car DID drive me "doorstep to doorstep", WITHOUT INTERVENTION, over 50 miles from home to work this morning. Just because it's not working well FOR YOU does not mean it's not working well for everyone.
 
I just got it yesterday (new user) but have not done any highway driving yet, and won't for a few days. Has the highway "FSD" been changed as well? I thought beta FSD just added use on city streets and that the highway 'stack' was not changed...
You are correct, FSD beta is only active on city streets, the software is the same as the public build for highway driving currently. That should change soon, though.
 
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You are correct, FSD beta is only active on city streets, the software is the same as the public build for highway driving currently. That should change soon, though.
"Soon" was supposed to be this past April per Elon's last update, if memory serves me correctly ;).

Honestly though, given the state of things right now, I'm glad they're holding out on v11. I sure don't want NoAP driving on the highway like FSD currently does on city streets. No doubt there will be regressions when the time comes no matter what they do, but the more they can mitigate that beforehand, the better!
 
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"Soon" was supposed to be this past April per Elon's last update, if memory serves me correctly ;).

Honestly though, given the state of things right now, I'm glad they're holding out on v11. I sure don't want NoAP driving on the highway like FSD currently does on city streets. No doubt there will be regressions when the time comes no matter what they do, but the more they can mitigate that beforehand, the better!
The fact that it works as well as it does is a bloody miracle. I can't see highway driving being much of a challenge for the FSD software in it's current state...it's probably more an issue of just integrating the 2 stacks at this point.
 
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You never will use FSD Beta on the highway, until they unify the software stack (hopefully soon!). FSD beta ONLY works on city streets currently, when you get on the highway, it reverts back to the regular "Navigate on Autopilot" software. You should notice a difference in the graphics when the transition happens. BTW, while my initial drive wasn't great, my car DID drive me "doorstep to doorstep", WITHOUT INTERVENTION, over 50 miles from home to work this morning. Just because it's not working well FOR YOU does not mean it's not working well for everyone.
Perhaps, but I am safer with a drunk driver in the city than with the latest FSD. The purpose of the forum is not to declare proclamations for all of time in all of God's universe, but to share experiences, from which in improvements emerge.
 
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The fact that it works as well as it does is a bloody miracle. I can't see highway driving being much of a challenge for the FSD software in it's current state...it's probably more an issue of just integrating the 2 stacks at this point.
Agreed in that highway driving is a much simpler problem to solve vs. city streets, and therefore FSD shouldn't have to "worry" as much in its decision-making, thus leading to less errors. That being said, I'd still be shocked if there weren't regressions on the highway when v11 first hits. I was just trying to say that I'm hopeful they can mitigate those regressions as much as possible before it rolls out. We'll see what happens (eventually :)).
 
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novox77

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Nov 25, 2017
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it has made a left turn at an intersection and driven over a raised median in the middle of the left turn. It is still herky-jerky and drives like a drunk driver.I do not think it will be long before we are pulled by the police for suspect drunk driving.

I am safer with a drunk driver in the city than with the latest FSD.

You should be intervening and/or disengaging before the car can be erratic like a drunk driver. It might be interesting to see what a car might do on its own, but that is 1) dangerous; 2) not helpful from a testing perspective. Intervene when needed and use the snapshot button to report the intervention.

(there is no useful reason to allow a car to drive over a raised median)
 
I am safer with a drunk driver in the city than with the latest FSD. The purpose of the forum is not to declare proclamations for all of time in all of God's universe, but to share experiences, from which in improve
That hasn't been my experience at all. I have used FSD Beta to drive me over 50 miles to and from work with no interventions and only one situation where I would have intervened had there been traffic (it chose the wrong turning lane, then immediately did a lane change after the intersection). You seem to be the one declaring broad proclamations for all time here, bub.

Additionally, there have been beta testers in the large metro areas (including one guy taking it through downtown Seattle and the incredibly tight side streets WITH heavy traffic) and it doesn't have any issues until it tries to negotiate 5th street (with the monorail).

Maybe you need to take a look, SCIENTIFICALLY, at how FSD beta is performing and improving over time, instead of making broad statements on it based on your personal grudge against it.
 
How long are these updates good for? Say in a month some cars are not performing as good as they were when the software update was first pushed out. Will Tesla send the same update to those cars so they operate in FSD as they originally did?
The software does not learn or otherwise adapt itself based on driving. Reinstalling the software would not solve anything.
 

Mardak

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Oct 13, 2018
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starting to handle roads without any map data
This sounds like better handling of unmapped roads, e.g., new developments. But hopefully this generally means less reliance on map data. I've noticed a lot of incorrect lane change behaviors that match up with incomplete/incorrect OpenStreetMap data:
  1. unnecessary lane change when map data indicates current road will reduce from 3 lanes to 2, so FSD Beta conservatively switches to the middle lane perhaps assuming either the left-most or right-most lanes become a turn-only lane
  2. not switching out of a right-turn-only lane when map data incorrectly indicates the road is only 2 lanes when there's actually a 3rd
For the first issue, handling the road as if there wasn't any map data would have been better than the map heuristic, so once FSD Beta networks are good enough to handle missing map data, it probably won't be long until it ignores map data.

For the second issue, FSD Beta currently relies too much on map data to get out of a lane, but 10.12 can correct itself once it sees the right-turn-only road markings. Currently the distance it detects the arrows to switch out is relatively late, but Tesla has a "known solution" of training on camera data from a few seconds later to predict the arrows from further away.
 

Mardak

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Oct 13, 2018
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with 10.12.2 update, I was surprised to see it work perfectly on a very long left with heavy traffic that has never worked in the past
Curious, were these for single-point urban interchanges (SPUI) common at interstate intersections with a major road? Previous versions, I've noticed FSD Beta wanting to turn back onto the interstate (the sharp left/U-turn was probably easier to see than the long gradual left turn).

Overall, looks like Tesla is focusing on extending the prediction range of networks now that they're more confident that predictions are good at nearer ranges. These near and confident predictions can be used by the autolabeler to then propagate the learnings to a few seconds earlier to better see very long left turns.
 
Curious, were these for single-point urban interchanges (SPUI) common at interstate intersections with a major road? Previous versions, I've noticed FSD Beta wanting to turn back onto the interstate (the sharp left/U-turn was probably easier to see than the long gradual left turn).

Overall, looks like Tesla is focusing on extending the prediction range of networks now that they're more confident that predictions are good at nearer ranges. These near and confident predictions can be used by the autolabeler to then propagate the learnings to a few seconds earlier to better see very long left turns.
I am not familiar with the SPUI acronym, buy looking at the link, I would say no, that is not the type of place I was making the long left term. It is here...

Not a complex turn, but as not seen in this photo, it is HEAVY traffic in both directions at mid-day and drivers speeding through there at 55 mph or higher. Before 10.12.2 I could never get the car to want to put out of this location with any confidence and often not pull out at all. I could sit there forever and when it did pull out, it was hesitant and jerky. Now it seems to smoothly handle that intersection with ease, yet still trouble with some other similar intersections.
 

Mardak

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Oct 13, 2018
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that is not the type of place I was making the long left term. It is here...
Ah indeed, that's not a SPUI. Looks like your left turn onto Pyramid crosses 2 lanes of high-speed cross traffic and a center turn lane to get into 2 destination lanes to complete the left turn in maybe 100feet. It does seem like a relatively dangerous maneuver for an unprotected left turn onto a 5-lane highway with wide shoulders and bike lanes compared to much shorter left turns on 2-lane residential streets maybe 25feet.

The I-80 and Pyramid intersection is a SPUI where making a left from I-80E to head north on Pyramid requires going under all of the interstate and passing other offramps, so that requires traveling probably 300feet and is likely pushing the limits of how far FSD Beta has been predicting intersection extents. So while it's not as dangerous as the unprotected left turn, these really long left turns probably had been confusing FSD Beta's path prediction.

I also see there's a McCarran triple-lane left turn to head north on Pyramid, and that's probably 200feet. So it'll be interesting to hear if FSD Beta has/had been having trouble making these even longer left turns.
 
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Ah indeed, that's not a SPUI. Looks like your left turn onto Pyramid crosses 2 lanes of high-speed cross traffic and a center turn lane to get into 2 destination lanes to complete the left turn in maybe 100feet. It does seem like a relatively dangerous maneuver for an unprotected left turn onto a 5-lane highway with wide shoulders and bike lanes compared to much shorter left turns on 2-lane residential streets maybe 25feet.

The I-80 and Pyramid intersection is a SPUI where making a left from I-80E to head north on Pyramid requires going under all of the interstate and passing other offramps, so that requires traveling probably 300feet and is likely pushing the limits of how far FSD Beta has been predicting intersection extents. So while it's not as dangerous as the unprotected left turn, these really long left turns probably had been confusing FSD Beta's path prediction.

I also see there's a McCarran triple-lane left turn to head north on Pyramid, and that's probably 200feet. So it'll be interesting to hear if FSD Beta has/had been having trouble making these even longer left turns.
yup, you understand my situation perfectly. Interestingly, FSD has not trouble with the triple-lane left turn on Pyramid and yes it is about 200 feet.
 

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