FSD Beta 10.12

[tmoz]

Okay I will change it to small letters.

Cool - it is also associated with the elderly with poor eyesight, so you don't want to be thrown into that group either.

 

[sleepydoc]

I find Dirty Tesla's evaluation somewhat encouraging. He's one of the "OG" beta testers who runs sensible tests, and I like the clear view of the screen he gets from his HDMI hack. Plus his environment is fairly similar to where I am, though we have fewer roundabouts.

It appears the 10.12 has noticeable improvements in handling stop signs and intersections, and looks somewhat "smoother". I hope the rest of us get it soon.

What’s an “OG” beta tester?

 

[Supcom]

After watching several of the early 10.12.1 videos on youtube, I noticed a penchant for the new software to present the Red Wheel of Death. I hope such a major bug gets squashed before this version is provided to The Rest of Us.

I expect wide release will be no sooner than 10.12.2.

 

[nvx1977]

What’s an “OG” beta tester?

Urban Dictionary: OG

OG used to mean Original Gangster allthough some poeple these days use OG as a quicker way of saying Original

www.urbandictionary.com

In this case, the early access testers pre-safety score.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Haven’t taken a ton of time to look at videos, just watched a couple quick minutes of Dirty Tesla’s. To me it looks like basically the same thing with incremental improvements in places. I don’t put much stock in it “doing something it didn’t do before” unless it is reliably doing it - hard to assess from the videos.

But sounds like there’s still some jerkiness. The visualization having a longer range is nice but it was clear before that the vehicle could see things well outside the visualization in prior versions.

Looking forward to trying it out! Completely impossible to assess quality just from videos. I am hoping it is a LOT more aggressive on stops and starts and turns, and that perhaps they can tune this with the aggressive/moderate/sedate driving profiles for those who have different preferences (currently those settings do nothing significant, really (they have an effect, just not a helpful one)).

I watched several of the videos completely through, including Dirty Tesla's. I have to say that it's more than normal incremental Improvement. I think his theme, repeated so much that he ended up apologizing for it, was that it feels much more natural in many of its basic driving and decision-making operations. And sure, the statement "still some jerkiness" will probably apply almost forever at some level, but again it's the opposite of his overall characterization. I believe that he feels there's much less jerkiness overall.

I'm not at all trying to bicker or to undercut your comment, simply reporting what I gleaned from watching his whole video and a few others.

( I also watched the Whole Mars video but I'm not assigning much weight to it, for all the reasons already discussed. I think Dirty Tesla, Rocco. Frenchie and others are giving us honest pro and con evaluations while leaving the evidence on-screen and open to alternative evaluation.)

10.12 isn't finished by any means, but clearly a step up in overall behavior. I'm about to watch the longish video posted by Rob Maurer, and perhaps others that may have appeared this afternoon/evening.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I have to say that it's more than normal incremental Improvement. I think his theme, repeated so much that he ended up apologizing for it, was that it feels much more natural in many of its basic driving and decision-making operations.

Hopefully the release comes soon so we can all find out! I definitely think there has been substantial improvement in FSD Beta since the initial safety score expanded beta testing group, but I’d be surprised if this version took a bigger step than what we’ve had in the months since that initial expanded beta. And I think that improvement has been relatively small (not to say not noticeable or substantial - just not changing actual utility much!).

If this version really does change the way it drives a bit, that could be interesting. Jerkiness, lack of anticipation, unnatural driving, and lack of aggressiveness are some of its major shortcomings right now.

The ultimate litmus test is whether I will be able to use it with my wife in the car. Right now I can usually go about 1-2 minutes before she starts screaming at me to turn it off and telling me it is dangerous (I turn it off). Will it be good enough for her to not know I am using it? (Usually she doesn’t watch/listen to see whether I am, and she doesn’t really know how to tell). I really doubt it but I will definitely come back and say I was wrong if it is that good!

In any case I find it impossible to tell from watching videos. I’ll see if I have time to watch some more. There were some odd things going on in the visualizations in the one I watched - not sure if it really mattered though - didn’t quite catch the phantom truck and doubling car in screen shots. 8:03PM, on the left turn, in Dirty’s video.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Hopefully the release comes soon so we can all find out! I definitely think there has been substantial improvement in FSD Beta since the initial safety score expanded beta testing group, but I’d be surprised if this version took a bigger step than what we’ve had in the months since that initial expanded beta. And I think that improvement has been relatively small (not to say not noticeable or substantial - just not changing actual utility much!).

If this version really does change the way it drives a bit, that could be interesting. Jerkiness, lack of anticipation, unnatural driving, and lack of aggressiveness are some of its major shortcomings right now.

The ultimate litmus test is whether I will be able to use it with my wife in the car. Right now I can usually go about 1-2 minutes before she starts screaming at me to turn it off and telling me it is dangerous (I turn it off). Will it be good enough for her to not know I am using it? (Usually she doesn’t watch/listen to see whether I am, and she doesn’t really know how to tell). I really doubt it but I will definitely come back and say I was wrong if it is that good!

In any case I find it impossible to tell from watching videos. I’ll see if I have time to watch some more. There were some odd things going on in the visualizations in the one I watched - not sure if it really mattered though - didn’t quite catch the phantom truck and doubling car in screen shots. 8:03PM, on the left turn, in Dirty’s video.

I think that having one's non-Teslaphile wife to be perfectly satisfied with FSD is a very high bar, possibly unachievable in our particular space time continuum. Or, at least I'm pretty sure we're a lot more than two weeks away from that...

After just watching the Rob Maurer YouTube, I think the main thing that needs to be added is the ability (confirmed by on-screen visualization) of the car to recognize and react to Do Not Enter, Road Closed and assorted other critical signs and road markings. Essentially just as important, considering that 100% completeness of these recognitions is impossible, is the ability to discern that there is an important object or sign/signal that the car perceives even if it doesn't know how it should react. I don't think it's ready for wide release if it proceeds as if such a thing doesn't exist, just because it doesn't yet understand.

It may be the case that some of these things are being recognized and labeled at some NN level internally, but if in the end the car doesn't respond to them and they're not even shown in abstract on the visualization display, then there's no way to conclude that the car was anything other than lucky - even it did the "right thing" in a particular instance.

 

[mhan00]

Very much hoping Chuck gets his car back soon so we can see if the car uses medians well for unprotected lefts. My bet is that it will work maybe 25% of the time at best with the rest being some stressful attempts, but it would be wonderful to see the car using the median well. No video I’ve seen yet has shown an unprotected left that requires a median or a middle lane to complete.

 

[Z_Lynx]

. . . I think the main thing that needs to be added is the ability (confirmed by on-screen visualization) of the car to recognize and react to Do Not Enter, Road Closed and assorted other critical signs and road markings.

Huge ditto. I want recognition and visualization of the clear "stop sign ahead" sign so it stops at the next road intersection. One particular stop sign is not visualized (perhaps due to location and camera angle) but the warning could still be acted on to prevent running the stop sign - which is what it does now.

I also want early accurate advance lane planning. Always annoyed by having to block lane changes to the right for an upcoming left turn.

 

[sleepydoc]

Hopefully the release comes soon so we can all find out! I definitely think there has been substantial improvement in FSD Beta since the initial safety score expanded beta testing group, but I’d be surprised if this version took a bigger step than what we’ve had in the months since that initial expanded beta. And I think that improvement has been relatively small (not to say not noticeable or substantial - just not changing actual utility much!).

If this version really does change the way it drives a bit, that could be interesting. Jerkiness, lack of anticipation, unnatural driving, and lack of aggressiveness are some of its major shortcomings right now.

The ultimate litmus test is whether I will be able to use it with my wife in the car. Right now I can usually go about 1-2 minutes before she starts screaming at me to turn it off and telling me it is dangerous (I turn it off). Will it be good enough for her to not know I am using it? (Usually she doesn’t watch/listen to see whether I am, and she doesn’t really know how to tell). I really doubt it but I will definitely come back and say I was wrong if it is that good!

In any case I find it impossible to tell from watching videos. I’ll see if I have time to watch some more. There were some odd things going on in the visualizations in the one I watched - not sure if it really mattered though - didn’t quite catch the phantom truck and doubling car in screen shots. 8:03PM, on the left turn, in Dirty’s video.

Yes - the 'wife (or significant other) test' is definitely one of my goals! It doesn't have to be perfect, but the frequent jerking around is unpleasant at beset and can be very disconcerting for passengers. As a driver, I know I'm in control and can take over whenever I want or need to. Passengers don't know that and it feels like you're driving with someone who isn't paying attention or doesn't know what they're doing. Phantom braking falls in the same category. When you're riding along and suddenly it slows 5 MPH then accelerates back to the sped limit and everyone in the car sways front and back it doesn't make for a pleasant ride.

There was definite improvement with turns between 10.2 and 11.2. There's still some jerkiness but much less. I'm hopeful that trend will continue.

Huge ditto. I want recognition and visualization of the clear "stop sign ahead" sign so it stops at the next road intersection. One particular stop sign is not visualized (perhaps due to location and camera angle) but the warning could still be acted on to prevent running the stop sign.

I also want early accurate advance lane planning. Always annoyed by having to block lane changes to the right for an upcoming left turn.

Yes, for some reason lane planning seems to be getting worse over the last few versions, not better. Why would you do like you said and switch lanes to the left 500 -1000 feet before you know you need to make a right turn? If you're making a left turn followed by an immediate right and there are two left turn lanes, why would you pick the left most lane? And why does it bother to change lanes at all when you're driving straight and the road is totally open?

I don't know for sure but things like this combined with all the random blinkers make me suspect the lane planning algorithms have gotten messed up. Maybe that happened when they tried to implement the ability to go around parked cars as an unintended consequence?

 

[Mrcarcrazy]

My lane planning has been the worst aspect of FSD since I got Beta last year. I do agree it’s gotten a bit worse. But for me, on the roads I drive, it’s always been bad.

 

[Ramphex]

Much rollout, so fast, very amaze

 

[Twiglett]

Much rollout, so fast, very amaze

truly amazing is that there is one car on TeslaFi that has an install pending for the last day.
Oh to be so cool to be able to ignore an FSD beta update for that long

 

[ePowerman]

Much rollout, so fast, very amaze

Someone has been reading Hail Mary.

I loved that book.

 

[mathewbeall]

Out of curiosity - any tricks to get a better score, so I have a chance of getting into the BETA - for something I (we) bought over 2 years ago?

I am in SoCal - and I drive in the carpool lane, so anytime I need to get out of the carpool lane and over to an exit - I get slammed with all sorts of "unsafe following" and "forward collision warnings". Safe driver - never had an accident - just SoCal heavy traffic freeways!

I am sitting at a 79 right now.

Matt

 

[jeremymc7]

Out of curiosity - any tricks to get a better score, so I have a chance of getting into the BETA - for something I (we) bought over 2 years ago?

I am in SoCal - and I drive in the carpool lane, so anytime I need to get out of the carpool lane and over to an exit - I get slammed with all sorts of "unsafe following" and "forward collision warnings". Safe driver - never had an accident - just SoCal heavy traffic freeways!

I am sitting at a 79 right now.

Matt

They’ve closed a lot of the loopholes that allowed you to grease the system.

One thing you can still do if it’s really important for you to get the score up is to get on the freeway in the middle of the night. Hundreds of miles with zero issues will help greatly.

 

[cadreeeem]

Out of curiosity - any tricks to get a better score, so I have a chance of getting into the BETA - for something I (we) bought over 2 years ago?

I am in SoCal - and I drive in the carpool lane, so anytime I need to get out of the carpool lane and over to an exit - I get slammed with all sorts of "unsafe following" and "forward collision warnings". Safe driver - never had an accident - just SoCal heavy traffic freeways!

I am sitting at a 79 right now.

Matt

Here's some tips:
Drive as much as you can without using AP. Driving with AP on will not count towards your score.

Accelerate slowly, coast to stops, keep a few seconds gap between you and the car ahead of you, turn corners and change lanes slowly. Basically, drive like a little old lady.

If anything happens that you think might lower your score, reboot before putting the car into Park at the end of the trip that the event occurred. That cancels the trip including any miles drive.

Once you reach 100, reboot after each trip before you go into Park.

I managed to get to 100 and keep it there until I got into the program.

 

[mathwhiz]

Here's some tips:
Drive as much as you can without using AP. Driving with AP on will not count towards your score.

Accelerate slowly, coast to stops, keep a few seconds gap between you and the car ahead of you, turn corners and change lanes slowly. Basically, drive like a little old lady.

If anything happens that you think might lower your score, reboot before putting the car into Park at the end of the trip that the event occurred. That cancels the trip including any miles drive.

Once you reach 100, reboot after each trip before you go into Park.

I managed to get to 100 and keep it there until I got into the program.

Sorry but the reboot trick to fix up score dings was eliminated awhile ago…

 

[auger]

Here's some tips:
Drive as much as you can without using AP. Driving with AP on will not count towards your score.

Accelerate slowly, coast to stops, keep a few seconds gap between you and the car ahead of you, turn corners and change lanes slowly. Basically, drive like a little old lady.

If anything happens that you think might lower your score, reboot before putting the car into Park at the end of the trip that the event occurred. That cancels the trip including any miles drive.

Once you reach 100, reboot after each trip before you go into Park.

I managed to get to 100 and keep it there until I got into the program.

Sorry but the reboot trick to fix up score dings was eliminated awhile ago…

Also, I'm not so sure about driving on A/P not counting toward your score. Can anyone else verify?

 

[sleepydoc]

They may have changed it, but it didn’t count sudden braking or following distance while using auto pilot.