Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I don't want to amplify people who are consistently negative (I prefer just straight facts rather than constant bashing), but I'll just go ahead and do it anyway...

I don't understand why people continuously think each revision of the beta is going to be a game changer, or "🔥." Obviously each one will be incremental improvement, with additional bugs, possibly crippling ones. This isn't our first rodeo. There are not going to be any big step changes for the foreseeable future. Expectations should be low for every release - think about a 2-3 year timeframe until it's actually (maybe) decent - that would be fantastically fast progress! You didn't buy your car and FSD to only have it for 5 years, after all - you're keeping it for 10-15 years.

I also don't understand why some people are so sanguine about the beta the way it is. To be clear, many people here are quite matter-of-fact about its limitations. But it's bizarre to me that anyone thinks it's good. Anyway, this list of limitations you list should not be a surprise. I'm not sure what Tesla's end goal here is, and they're clearly a long way off from any goal they may have, but these limitations should not be a surprise, and maybe they're deliberate (I definitely don't think so, but it is possible that some of them are).

But it seems to me the best thing to do to get the beta to be better faster is to complain about all the ways in which it sucks, not say "this should be expected that it doesn't drive the way we do." It's not clear that Tesla listens directly to feedback from testers, but at least if the overall sentiment here is realistic and less sycophantic (note, this does not mean complaining about everything and bashing Tesla & Elon at every opportunity - it means sticking to describing the limitations - just the facts) maybe that will motivate Tesla to get their act together. Unfortunately Elon seems stuck in an echo chamber (I think the algorithm fooled him somehow; he may need to adjust his settings), so it's not clear whether it will help. Anyway, it should not feel like the car is under computer control!

Also, reminder to users: the more interventions the better. Intervene! Override that accelerator! Don't let it suck and suffer; put it out of its misery and take pride in intervening BEFORE it screws up, seamlessly - that is how success is measured. No one should be able to tell that you are using FSDb (b). It's not clear whether it will help progress in any way, since this is Tesla, but it is undoubtedly better than not intervening.

Anyway, I'm holding off on installing this one for now; giving it some time to brew. After a couple days it should be pretty clear whether it is safe to install.
I agree with many of your points. I watched a Dirty Tesla video where he shared that during his normal drives (not recording for YouTube), he engages and disengages constantly in situations where he knows the car may not handle things properly (too close to the parked car, changing lanes when it shouldn't be, etc.). That's typically how I handle it as well. I try to use FSD Beta as much as possible, and report issues as best I can when they happen.

Your statement "I also don't understand why some people are so sanguine about the beta the way it is. To be clear, many people here are quite matter-of-fact about its limitations. But it's bizarre to me that anyone thinks it's good." gives me pause. What is your definition of "good"? Based on your posts, I would guess that you consider "good" to be FSD Beta performing how a human would drive, with 0 interventions and 0 disengagements. That would be FSD L2 ready for rollout to the masses. This is Beta, for testing and development. They don't have it dialed in well enough for official L2 release, so they need help from drivers out there to get data and make changes/refinements. It's unfair to call the Beta "bad" just because it's not ready to come out of beta and be released with 0 faults.

I've said it before, about 90% of the time it drives well, and 10% of the time it tries to kill me (obviously this is an exaggeration for levity), and I'm still impressed that just a few years ago there were no consumer owned vehicles with L2 on city streets, and now my car can drive me around town with little intervention on my part. I choose to find that amazing. Obviously others are less impressed.

And we should expect that the car will not drive as we do (individually). It will hopefully, once released from Beta, drive like an "average" human driver. But some people are aggressive drivers, and prefer the car to accelerate rapidly from a stop (either a stop sign or green light). Others prefer a more gentle drive and don't want to feel g-forces as the car moves around. Perhaps Tesla will give us modes when the software is released, like Chill and Assertive, that will control how the car behaves in situations. For now, they try to listen to people when they get tons of complains that the car is "too slow on the up-take" and make the car accelerate more quickly. But now we're hearing people complain that the car is too aggressive off the line, and then settles down, and they want it smoother. It's a total Goldilocks situation, and Tesla will get it right eventually. :)
 
What is your definition of "good"? Based on your posts, I would guess that you consider "good" to be FSD Beta performing how a human would drive, with 0 interventions and 0 disengagements.

I guess another way to describe what I am looking for would be “useful.”

now my car can drive me around town with little intervention on my part. I choose to find that amazing.

It is an amazing technological feat - part of what is nice about being in the beta is seeing the abilities and limitations of this particular system - but that doesn’t mean it is useful and in the end the accomplishment is/will be judged relative to other offerings.

Right now I cannot use it with anyone else in the car and when I am using it by myself it’s really just a lot more effort and sometimes more risky (it doesn’t slow down defensively when I would - sometimes I intervene but not always and that increases risk) than driving myself.

Others prefer a more gentle drive and don't want to feel g-forces as the car moves around
I don’t want to feel g-forces too much. But it is generally change in g-forces that is the problem. It’s possible to drive quite briskly but still have it be very pleasant. Not the case right now. I definitely want a gentle and very brisk and confident drive, which is not at all what we have right now; it is one of the biggest issues I have (this is what prevents it from being used with others in the car).

It's unfair to call the Beta "bad" just because it's not ready to come out of beta and be released with 0 faults.
I didn’t call it bad, at least not very recently, that I can recall. In the past I have described certain aspects of the beta as “garbage,” though, lol. Anyway, such statements are not static assessments. And specificity is good with such assessments; blanket “bad” statements don’t provide much value.
 
Last edited:
I don’t want to feel g-forces too much. But it is generally change in g-forces that is the problem. It’s possible to drive quite briskly but still have it be very pleasant. Not the case right now. I definitely want a gentle and very brisk and confident drive, which is not at all what we have right now; it is one of the biggest issues I have (this is what prevents it from being used with others in the car).
Agreed, and that's something that will get dialed-in at some point. Early in the Beta, the car was very mild with acceleration, and I recall thinking it's too mild and needs to get moving quicker - I'm pissing off the people behind me. Recent updates have the car "jumping off the line", which feels uncomfortable when you're not expecting it, but makes the people behind you happier. It's like we're passengers (even though we're behind the wheel) in someone else's car and they drive "crazy" (we all have friends like that - LOL). I'm pretty confident they'll get it "just right" at some point in the process.
 
It is an amazing technological feat - part of what is nice about being in the beta is seeing the abilities and limitations of this particular system - but that doesn’t mean it is useful and in the end the accomplishment is/will be judged relative to other offerings.
The beauty of a free-market. In the end, all our efforts may just end up being an example to others. We may never get the end product we want with Tesla, but because of us other manufacturers may achieve it. But we still helped make it possible, and a point of pride. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raurele and Z_Lynx
I live in an apartment building so I had to sit in my car in the parking garage and get the update through my iPhone tethering. Haven't had a chance yet to go on a drive with it, but I'm going on a trip to Phoenix next week and it will be nice to finally have autopilot go faster than 80 MPH on my car.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JeremyJ and Natal
Received 10.12.2 today.

First drive impression: Moderate rain (local city/streets) so FSD would not even engage. I'd call that a major disappointment but not surprising.

2nd drive impression
  • Good
    • No phantom braking on the 1/2 road that has always had significant braking and would never maintain the posted speed limit or manually adjusted speed
  • No So Good
    • Roundabout. Stopped before entering both times I tried from two different entrances. Once entered going around the rotary was worse. These are large roundabouts which may account for different behavior then others have reported on
    • General aggressiveness. Too aggressive on several intersections and far faster than other humans drive.
    • T-Intersections without Stop Signs now have very different behavior. Stops several feet before the intersection like it does with Stop signs then creeps. Before it would go immediately to the edge of the intersection. Don't really care either way since it's the decision when to go is important.
    • Lots of general jerkiness
    • Still no improvement on the obstructed left/right hand turns leaving my neighborhood. In fact the more aggressive FSD tried to pull out even quicker then before. Thank goodness I pay extra attention to this type of obstructed intersection otherwise I'd have been hit several times. Cars are 90 feet away going 35-40mph when FSD decides it should pull out. Hard brake. IMO it's simply the limitation of the B-pillar camera and FSD is unlikely to ever be safe at this intersection and other similar intersections.
    • Had to "fight" the steering wheel several times when FSD tried some rather bizarre turns.
  • I've learned before on other releases to hold off on my opinion for at least a week. While today didn't go well I wouldn't be surprised if I did the same drive again and the problems were mostly resolved.
 
The one think I did note is it had no issue cruising through yellow. Twice when I would have stopped it decided I keep going. It made it about 1/2 way into the intersection before the light turned red. Legal I guess, but I would have stopped.
 
I don't want to amplify people who are consistently negative (I prefer just straight facts rather than constant bashing), but I'll just go ahead and do it anyway...

I don't understand why people continuously think each revision of the beta is going to be a game changer, or "🔥." Obviously each one will be incremental improvement, with additional bugs, possibly crippling ones. This isn't our first rodeo. There are not going to be any big step changes for the foreseeable future. Expectations should be low for every release - think about a 2-3 year timeframe until it's actually (maybe) decent - that would be fantastically fast progress! You didn't buy your car and FSD to only have it for 5 years, after all - you're keeping it for 10-15 years.

I also don't understand why some people are so sanguine about the beta the way it is. To be clear, many people here are quite matter-of-fact about its limitations. But it's bizarre to me that anyone thinks it's good. Anyway, this list of limitations you list should not be a surprise. I'm not sure what Tesla's end goal here is, and they're clearly a long way off from any goal they may have, but these limitations should not be a surprise, and maybe they're deliberate (I definitely don't think so, but it is possible that some of them are).

But it seems to me the best thing to do to get the beta to be better faster is to complain about all the ways in which it sucks, not say "this should be expected that it doesn't drive the way we do." It's not clear that Tesla listens directly to feedback from testers, but at least if the overall sentiment here is realistic and less sycophantic (note, this does not mean complaining about everything and bashing Tesla & Elon at every opportunity - it means sticking to describing the limitations - just the facts) maybe that will motivate Tesla to get their act together. Unfortunately Elon seems stuck in an echo chamber (I think the algorithm fooled him somehow; he may need to adjust his settings), so it's not clear whether it will help. Anyway, it should not feel like the car is under computer control!

Also, reminder to users: the more interventions the better. Intervene! Override that accelerator! Don't let it suck and suffer; put it out of its misery and take pride in intervening BEFORE it screws up, seamlessly - that is how success is measured. No one should be able to tell that you are using FSDb (b). It's not clear whether it will help progress in any way, since this is Tesla, but it is undoubtedly better than not intervening.

Anyway, I'm holding off on installing this one for now; giving it some time to brew. After a couple days it should be pretty clear whether it is safe to install.
exactly this. I also don't understand the constant negativity out certain folks and that is their prerogative.
As I said in an earlier post, the incremental changes between releases is sometimes difficult to spot, but look back to those early releases the change is dramatic. Obviously still not finished, but it doesn't change just how much better it is now.

I did my 50 mile commute for the first time with this release. Sure, some of the long standing issues like leaving too large of a gap on highway are still there. But overall, the confidence of this release is a noticeable change. Dare I say it (damn you FMC) "smooth".
 
So I’m getting red arms of death every 30 seconds or so, no matter how much I torque the yoke. Pretty much have to disengage and re-engage for them to go away. Anything else results in this

View attachment 811306

I have never had a single strike before. Tried a restart. This issue makes this FSD release virtually useless 🤨
Had exact same issue on first drive today. Seems to have gone away now. Never had a strike till this release. No amount of torque on the wheel would stop the nag
 
the screaming red wheel of death came up
We just got this for the first time last week, when we were on 2022.4.Iforget, which we'd been on for aaaaages. It was on the freeway, so not technically FSD, just old-fashioned Autopilot. As soon as I double-flipped, it screamed at me to take over. Instantaneous. We thought maybe bug splats on the cameras. Then the next day I tried again in a similar spot. It settled into AP, and then maybe 10 seconds later it did the red wheel thing.

It hadn't occurred to me that these might be counted as strikes against us. Not fair!

Today we upgraded to 2022.12.3.20. We'll see......
 
If only there existed an official Tesla FSD Beta Testers forum that had people from Tesla's FSD team participating in it.... ;)
Many there companies have faced this issue .. how to get (necessary) feedback from testers without getting overwhelmed. Microsoft used to do this using "MVP" (most valuable professionals) who were not MS employees but volunteers who participated in forums like this but would also have access to internal MS reporting so that they could give early feedback of issues that users were reporting .. essentially acting as triage agents for the beta teams in MS. Worked pretty well all round.
 
We just got this for the first time last week, when we were on 2022.4.Iforget, which we'd been on for aaaaages. It was on the freeway, so not technically FSD, just old-fashioned Autopilot. As soon as I double-flipped, it screamed at me to take over. Instantaneous. We thought maybe bug splats on the cameras. Then the next day I tried again in a similar spot. It settled into AP, and then maybe 10 seconds later it did the red wheel thing.

It hadn't occurred to me that these might be counted as strikes against us. Not fair!

Today we upgraded to 2022.12.3.20. We'll see......
But *were* they counted as strikes? Did they appear as that on the Autopilot screen?
 
Yeah. Was pretty obvious from the influencer videos that there were a lot of issues with object identification in this version of beta. This is a bit different than what was in those videos, but still similar.

I’m surprised the car hasn’t shown you the reflection before, but maybe their changes to the NN make this possible at this angle now.
I noticed this today also, the cameras seemed to pick up the reflection of my car in the car to my left, and project that as an additional car to the left of THAT car (which put that phantom car pointed the wrong way into oncoming traffic).

Wonder if these phantom cars are going to cause phantom braking events?
 
Did a couple of drives on 10.12.2 today on some of my standard "test it out" routes. Overall if I was to sum up this version in one word it would be "confidence" .. though whether that confidence is justified or is the over-confidence of a teenager I'm not yet sure. Certainly braking and acceleration is much more human-like. The several UPLs the car did against heavy approaching traffic were very well handled .. surprising me. The car moved into the intersection to wait, and begin making the turn exactly as the last car drove past .. very human-like. Changing lanes was surprisingly aggressive (but safe), with the car slotting itself into the new lane with smaller gaps between cars then I've seen before.

I've not observed the car cutting across yellow lines when making left turns yet (as 10.11 was doing for me), but not done enough driving to see if that has gone away.

There were a couple of cautious braking events, one when a car braked late to stop at a side street (which I felt was justified though more cautious than I would have been). The other was for a large trunk coming in the other direction on a narrow road (the car also moved over to the right slightly, which was good). Note seen any genuine "no cause" PB events so far.

Overall, I'd say this was at least one step forward. I've yet to see any major steps back, but probably not done enough driving yet to find them.

Edit: I did have one case of the car trying to move into a right lane that wasn't there to turn right (the lane markings were very worn and I had big trucks in front and behind to limit visibility). I reported it, of course.

(All this was on the medium FSD profile .. I forget what its called as not in the car atm.)
 
Last edited:
I'd forgotten I could look. Thanks! I just checked. "This car has no such incidents" or some such message. Yay. Still, they were alarming events.
This happened on an earlier release (10.8.somthing if I recall) .. it was some part of the ADAS stack hard-crashing. Nasty thing to happen, of course, but at least it shows that Tesla have various very reactive fallbacks for such emergency scenarios.
 
  • Like
Reactions: edseloh