FSD Beta 10.12

[AlanSubie4Life]

The "big changes" translated into "significantly different driving style" for the car. That is popularly being described as the car being more confident and assertive in a lot of turns. I still encounter hesitant and jerky turns, usually when I'm at a T intersection. Lane choice seems better, but seems like there are still lingering issues from the last release. I might also venture to say that perception improved moderately, but decision-making is still iffy.

It's completely not scientific for a variety of reasons, but I definitely am going to record a given route before and after, at the same time of day, etc. I'm not good enough/ patient enough with video post-processing to put them side-by-side, etc., but if I have time I'll hack something crappy together.

Then on the return drive it popped up again out of nowhere.

What is "it" (since apparently it wasn't a strike since you said you cut it off before it did so)?

I wonder if they'll do another minor update before the sort-of-promised rollout to more safety score people...though it seems far from clear whether the safety level will meet their internal bar...though maybe the minor update will achieve that. It would be kind of amusing if they started striking out people who just got added to the program, though.

 

[Wnuk]

Sorry I wasnt more clear, The “it” was the red warning to keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention to the road. Both of which I was doing at the time so I disengaged FSD quickly So as not to incur another false strike. A few moments later I engaged FSD again and the message again popped up instantly.

Interestingly, a few miles later I decided to cancel my navigation destination thinking FSD would fail again. So while on a freeway I engaged autopilot and the red warning to pay attention to the road still popped up. I wasn’t until the car shut down and was asleep for a half hour or so the the issue went away again. Seems random.

I will say that prior to this release I had been getting a “cabin camera unavailable” message. I’ve ignored it cause it hasn’t affected FSD beta till now. That and my nearest service center is 2.5 hours away. But I don’t believe the camer issue is related to this latest error

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

But I don’t believe the camera issue is related to this latest error

Why not? I've never seen that message, as far as I can recall.

 

[EVNow]

After a couple of days of driving some observations. Overall, more disengagements than last release.

Better :
- Doesn't stop at an empty roundabout
- Doesn't stop for vehicle on the right in roundabouts

Same :
- Doesn't seem to always yield properly at roundabouts. Didn't slow down even when a vehicle was coming from the left one time.
- Right turns seem to be about the same

Worse :
- Left turns seem aggressive. Wanted to start turning left even when the vehicle was right next to me.
- Selecting wrong lanes (more than earlier)
- Had a couple of occasions when the car crossed the right line / center line for no reason. Like below - why is FSD trying to cross the center line on an empty road ? Had to disengage. This is one of my regular routes, so I've used FSD / AP on this for 3 years with no issues.

 

[jabloomf1230]

I think you pointed out one potential problem with a vision only system. When you turn left to the uphill slope, the vision system cannot decide the actual angle of the turn. It would look like the turn angle is more than 70°. Depending on the slope angle, the distance measurement would be wrong too.

That seems logical, but this is the first version of FSD beta that refused to make this turn. Previous versions would take the turn too fast, but at least the car didn't balk.

 

[jabloomf1230]

I think you pointed out one potential problem with a vision only system. When you turn left to the uphill slope, the vision system cannot decide the actual angle of the turn. It would look like the turn angle is more than 70°. Depending on the slope angle, the distance measurement would be wrong too.

That seems logical, but this is the first version of FSD beta that refused to make this turn. Previous versions would take the turn too fast, but at least the car didn't balk.

Update: Today the car did the same left turn perfectly. Could lighting conditions be that important? There was no traffic during either instance.

 

[Mcfly777]

Installed yesterday, M3LR. The best word to describe the changes to me is "confidence". The turns, the acceleration from stop, etc, seem better overall. I haven't experienced the red hands issue at all (only drove about 30 miles). On left turns, I noticed that it is cutting very close to the center median, which makes me quite uncomfortable.
I haven't used it enough to characterize the quality of lane choices just yet, but in one instance it very suddenly decided to switch lanes and it really scared me, almost like instantly decided to dive into the next lane. I disengaged.
In another situation I was at a 4 way stop, there were 2 pedestrians hanging out right at the corner, with no intention of crossing. The car decided to turn, then creep very very slowly as it went past the pedestrians (they probably thought I was stalking them, it was at night).
So lots of behaviors have changed, and I continue to flag them to the team.

 

[Ben W]

The "big changes" translated into "significantly different driving style" for the car. That is popularly being described as the car being more confident and assertive in a lot of turns. I still encounter hesitant and jerky turns, usually when I'm at a T intersection. Lane choice seems better, but seems like there are still lingering issues from the last release. I might also venture to say that perception improved moderately, but decision-making is still iffy.

For me it's a strange mix of overconfidence and underconfidence. It tends to go barreling down narrow crowded streets with poor visibility until it gives itself a FCW, but then when it sees a car approaching from the opposite direction it starts acting like a mouse, even if the other car has already pulled to the side to give us the right of way. I wouldn't be surprised if two Teslas on FSD were to reach a complete impasse (literally) trying to pass each other on a street like this.

Also today ran into a situation with FSD Beta on (but with no destination punched into the nav) where we reached a Y-junction fork and the car headed straight for the gore point at speed. (City street speed, not highway speed.) Had to brake hard; sent the incident to Tesla.

I'll reiterate my overall prediction, which has stayed the same for several years: Highway L4 will be ready by 2025 or so, city L4 by 2030, and non-geofenced L5 not before 2035. HW3 might not be sufficient for any of this; I wouldn't be surprised if HW4 (at least the computer component if not the full sensor suite) will be required for even highway L4.

 

[wknickless]

First drive on 10.12.2, this morning, stopped in a left turn lane at a red left arrow. The red left arrow turned green and the car moved about 2 inches and stopped.

I was like "oh no this new release is gonna really suck" and started moving my foot towards the accelerator.

...until the bicycle rider in the crosswalk came out of my left rear blind spot, right across the cross street, in flagrant violation of the Do Not Walk light facing him.

All of a sudden I was much less frustrated with the new release.

 

[Yelobird]

I'm driving a MYLR. And a red-wheel panic stop within 100' of activating it, then had a strike against me with no warning yesterday morning when I was looking straight ahead and holding the wheel. I have no idea why I got a strike since it doesn't tell you. I haven't used FSD since then.

Not saying this was the issue but in a previous post about this you did mention you were wearing sun glasses. Again Not saying this is your fault simply recognizing Why you may have had an issue and most do not. When an issue pops up I like to review the info based on “what did he do different then most” that would make his result special or unique. Guessing at this point….. I would bet as the system progresses and users do all they can to bypass safety devices (hundreds of clowns on YouTube) they are likely dialing up certain sensitivity levels (like cameras) to minimize the override. Wearing sun glasses has been posted many times to “get by” the camera safety and close your eyes. Again just an Opinion. For what it’s worth, previous Beta versions you Absolutely could wear black shades and go to sleep. (Not saying I tried this….)

 

[cadreeeem]

For me 10.12.2 hasn't improved much. Still drastic slow downs and tapping the brakes for no reasons, moving into the wrong lane less than a mile before a turn, and moving out of the rightmost lane on a divided highway cutting off faster traffic. I don't see what this major release brought except maybe better graphics on the display that your not supposed to be looking at while driving.

 

[Dewg]

after my strike yesterday I turned off FSD so you won't see another one from me because I'm not using it. Since I have no idea why I got the strike I have no way of preventing it or giving advice to anyone. I hate to admit this, but I've more or less decided to get a weight for the steering wheel since there doesn't appear to be any other good way for me to prevent random strikes.

Sleepy, you seem so defeated and that sucks. If I were in your shoes, I'd not take it lying down. I'd be reaching out to the FSD beta e-mail, the customer support e-mail, opening a ticket with service and taking the car into a service center. I don't think the weight is going to fix it, as when you apply torque manually, it doesn't seem to satisfy the system.

 

[floodland]

Other than the weird guesses about what is in my garage (person/motorcycle/rv/semi/mini tesla) when my garage is empty, this version has not improved much for me. Still takes stuttering right turns and won't use the suicide lane to turn left. But as my son pointed out it did recognize an open door on a car, so progress.

The last version installed (10.11.2) had multiple "take control" failures including a full loss of automation.

 

[T3M3T]

After a couple of days of driving some observations. Overall, more disengagements than last release.

Better :
- Doesn't stop at an empty roundabout
- Doesn't stop for vehicle on the right in roundabouts

Same :
- Doesn't seem to always yield properly at roundabouts. Didn't slow down even when a vehicle was coming from the left one time.
- Right turns seem to be about the same

Worse :
- Left turns seem aggressive. Wanted to start turning left even when the vehicle was right next to me.
- Selecting wrong lanes (more than earlier)
- Had a couple of occasions when the car crossed the right line / center line for no reason. Like below - why is FSD trying to cross the center line on an empty road ? Had to disengage. This is one of my regular routes, so I've used FSD / AP on this for 3 years with no issues.

View attachment 812005

It's getting bad. This is what happened to me yesterday. At red light, on left lane, it decided to cross double yellow lines and go around a car infront of me!

 

[Wnuk]

Why not? I've never seen that message, as far as I can recall.

The camera unavailable error is only up briefly then clears itself. It’s been that way for about 2 months now. Both times I got the red pay attention to the road message the cabin camera error was not present.

 

[nvx1977]

Had a new (for me) behavior on 10.12.2 yesterday.

I was on a straightaway 2-lane w double yellow. A motorcycle somewhat cut me off, turning onto my road from the left. With the bike already in front of me and quickly speeding away, my car started to slow, somewhat gradually until it came to a complete stop. I let it stop because no one was behind me. Then a few seconds later, it started to go again. I think I saw something similar in one of Dirty Tesla's videos.

Nothing unsafe about this errant move, but would be annoying to followers if I didn't intervene with the go pedal.

 

[Phlier]

I've more or less decided to get a weight for the steering wheel since there doesn't appear to be any other good way for me to prevent random strikes.

Gents, I think we need to talk about the two different types of nags.

1. Steering wheel induced nags. This type of nag is triggered by the car not sensing your hand on the steering wheel, and produces the "Apply Slight Turning Force to Wheel" nag, which is corrected by doing exactly what the warning says to do.

2. Cabin Camera induced nags. This type of nag is triggered by the cabin camera sensing that your eyes aren't on the road, and produces the "Please Pay Attention" nag, which is corrected by looking straight ahead at the road. Applying turning force to the wheel is NOT the corrective action for this nag. If the system is not able to correctly determine where you are looking, the nag will not clear itself, and will eventually end up with the red hands of death and a strike.

Also note that (obviously ) the 2nd type of nag requires the car to have a cabin camera installed and working. Non cabin camera cars are only capable of producing the steering wheel nag.

Please note the difference in wording of the nags, as that is the way to determine what type of corrective action is needed to remove the nag.

 

[sleepydoc]

Not saying this was the issue but in a previous post about this you did mention you were wearing sun glasses. Again Not saying this is your fault simply recognizing Why you may have had an issue and most do not. When an issue pops up I like to review the info based on “what did he do different then most” that would make his result special or unique. Guessing at this point….. I would bet as the system progresses and users do all they can to bypass safety devices (hundreds of clowns on YouTube) they are likely dialing up certain sensitivity levels (like cameras) to minimize the override. Wearing sun glasses has been posted many times to “get by” the camera safety and close your eyes. Again just an Opinion. For what it’s worth, previous Beta versions you Absolutely could wear black shades and go to sleep. (Not saying I tried this….)

Yes, I was wearing sunglasses. I have no way of knowing if that was the issue or not - it's never seemed to be an issue in the past and any driver monitoring system had better be able to deal with sunglasses but it's impossible to say. Like you said, maybe they changed the algorithm and it now has troubles?

The other thing I thought of was I did have my coffee in the car. I honestly can't remember if I had my coffee cup in my hand or not, but did it think I was holding my cell phone? Again, I drink coffee every morning on the way to work (like half the country does) and it's never been a problem in the past, but it's the only other thing I can think of.

On multiple occasions in the past I've had alerts pop up saying "pay attention to the road" despite the fact that I'm looking straight ahead telling me their algorithm is poor at best.

 

[VanFriscia]

A main reason for disengagements for me is not knowing if FSD has actually initiated a turn or just creeping forward to help FSD decide to go/stay?
I suspect some of my disengagements are actually thinking FSD has started the turn when it's still in the creep phase. What do others think?

Agreed, this has been driving me bonkers all throughout the beta. It's actually worse on 10.12 because it tends to be much more aggressive with both creeping and turning, and performance is so inconsistent that I really don't have the confidence to let it try in most cases. Something like a confirmation chime once it's committed to completing the turn would be helpful in signaling the car's intent to the driver.

 

[jabloomf1230]

Here's my "funny" FSD beta story for the day. I went for a drive and the wipers would not stop unless I disengaged FSD beta. They were only on intermittent.mode but it made the car undrivable. When I got to my destination, I took a look at the windshield and there were a few tiny bug splats around the front camera region. My destination had water and towels so I cleaned the windshield and that fixed the problem.

Is this FSD beta version's wiper mode that sensitive to bug splats? There were no messages about cameras being blocked or inoperable. This incident sent me on a search of the TMC forums regarding the best washer fluid, which IMO was inconclusive. Tesla recommends against fluids like RainX or those containing bug wash additives, so I'm at a loss. The blue stuff that's in there is weak on bug gunk.