FSD Beta 10.12

[Supcom]

Went out this evening and did a bunch more unprotected lefts and rights with some serious sight blockages to the left from fences or walls. Once again, FSD beta was not perfect, but still much improved over previous versions. I feel like a few cases FSD entered the intersection before it really had a chance to see if there was approaching traffic. There wasn't any, so maybe it was a correct decision.

The unprotected rights were done at an intersection with a high wall very close to the road on the left that makes it hard even for human drivers to navigate safely. I found FSD occasionally moved into the oncoming lane while creeping and once it refused to move even after oncoming traffic was completely clear. On previous versions, I would only allow FSD to attempt this turn if I could crane my neck forward to see the way was clear as the car started it's creep. This time, I was confident enough to allow FSD to make 6 attempts, generally with acceptable results. There still needs to be improvement, but this is a very difficult right turn. Left turns are even worse. I may wait for 10.13.x before trying those!

All turns were smoothly executed.

I may stick a gopro above the B-pillar camera so I can record what the car sees when it commits to the turn.

 

[Jeff N]

I can hear the FSD internal dialogue now..."OMG! OMG! Which lane should I pick? This is so HARD!"

“Gonna switch to the left lane… whoops, no!, my mistake… switching back to the right lane”.

 

[Rusty1]

Honestly, after driving with Safety Score for 6 months. I am more excited about driving my car “normal again” than I am about using FSD.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

Ran 120 miles yesterday with no issues. On my way out of town only had to tap gas twice. Once at right on red. The second was on a left turn on a green light. It’s like the system was day dreaming, the car next to me went I just sat ther.

started to not the messages why the car is changing lanes or why it’s slowing down. Have these messages always been there and I wasn’t paying attention?

“Avoiding right lane traffic”
“ Changing lanes to follow route“

The car definitely wants to avoid left and right lanes. It likes the middle lanes.

Also flashed message for braking. It wasn’t a phantom brake but just slowed down seeing something and gave a reason for it.

Rising sun on right side of car wasn’t an issue like before. I don’t know if they changed a setting to permit the glare? Driving at that time typically would shutdown FSD.

Mapping seams to be larger issue than the FSD. I hope they can anticipate speed zones and slow the car down before I enter it. I’m afraid I’ll get a ticket for speeding because the simply coasts into the zone and doesn’t brake to slow down. We al know of the traffic cops who love to run radar just beyond the reduced speed limit sign entering there town.

 

[MFrunkerOG]

Honestly, after driving with Safety Score for 6 months. I am more excited about driving my car “normal again” than I am about using FSD.

Ditto! Finally got the beta last night. My first thought was “finally I can drive again”.

Ironic that I waited for a self driving feature to drive it manually like I want

 

[sleepydoc]

I feel like a few cases FSD entered the intersection before it really had a chance to see if there was approaching traffic. There wasn't any, so maybe it was a correct decision.

One advantage FSD has over a human is it can simultaneously look both ways at once, so as the algorithm evolves it’s very possible for it to be quicker at evaluating whether it’s safe to proceed than a human is.

Ran 120 miles yesterday with no issues. On my way out of town only had to tap gas twice. Once at right on red. The second was on a left turn on a green light. It’s like the system was day dreaming, the car next to me went I just sat ther.

started to not the messages why the car is changing lanes or why it’s slowing down. Have these messages always been there and I wasn’t paying attention?

“Avoiding right lane traffic”
“ Changing lanes to follow route“

The car definitely wants to avoid left and right lanes. It likes the middle lanes.

Also flashed message for braking. It wasn’t a phantom brake but just slowed down seeing something and gave a reason for it.

Rising sun on right side of car wasn’t an issue like before. I don’t know if they changed a setting to permit the glare? Driving at that time typically would shutdown FSD.

Mapping seams to be larger issue than the FSD. I hope they can anticipate speed zones and slow the car down before I enter it. I’m afraid I’ll get a ticket for speeding because the simply coasts into the zone and doesn’t brake to slow down. We al know of the traffic cops who love to run radar just beyond the reduced speed limit sign entering there town.

At least some of those messages have been there before. It would be nice if it flashed a message for all phantom braking events so we could at least try to get an idea why it does them.

Slowing down for speed zones has been an issue for a while. I posted a while back about a spot on my commute that drops from 50 down to 35. It takes a full 1/4 mile for it to drop. Not only does it not anticipate the change, if you look at the power bar it continues to actively send power to the motors, making it take even longer to slow down. In contrast, for some reason straight TACC will slow down much more quickly. (It still only reacts and doesn‘t anticipate, though.)

 

[cadreeeem]

I wish there was an option for the car to give the messages audibly. Would be safer than looking away from the road to read the screen.

 

[sleepydoc]

I wish there was an option for the car to give the messages audibly. Would be safer than looking away from the road to read the screen.

Yeah - my favorite was the time it beeped at me so I looked down to see why it beeped and saw the message “pay attention to the road!”

 

[Supcom]

I did a bunch of beta 10.12.2 unprotected right turns at my nightmare intersection with a GoPro camera positioned just above the left B-pillar camera. This intersection has a wall with elevated parking lot creating severe sight blockage to the left. The GoPro allowed me to see virtually the same image available to the car as it creeps so I can see whether the car is positioned adequately to make this turn safely.

The below image is a screenshot taken from the point where the car ends its creep (when it does actually stop!). You can obviosly see the large truck in the center lane. But, notice the pickup truck that is just barely coming into view. It is way too close to the intersection for FSDb to proceed. Only a small fraction of a second earlier, the pickup could not be seen by the car. The truck certainly cannot be seen by the forward cameras because the car is turned slightly to the right.

This is a truly nightmare intersection as you must get your sensor (eyes or camera) up to the level of the sidewalk in order to see the rightmost oncoming lane. For human drivers, this is very difficult as it requires them to accurately place the front of the car right to the edge of the lane in order to be able to move their head forward far enough to see. It may be possible for a Tesla to do this if the car is angled a bit more to the right to get the B-pillar camera a bit further forward. Perhaps I'll try to do that while driving manually.

The crossroad here was widened a few years ago, which created the obstructing wall. Apparently, the highway dept. didn't want to purchase the strip center next to the road and convinced themselves that it was a good idea to block visibility on a road with 50+ mph cross traffic.

Happy testing.

 

[CaptUAL]

Yeah - my favorite was the time it beeped at me so I looked down to see why it beeped and saw the message “pay attention to the road!”

HA-HA- Reminds me of taking off in a Boeing 767 in the Simulator for the Airlines, then getting an engine fire, then it loudly says, "DON'T THINK--DON'T THINK !!".....I look down and think,"What The Heck??".......It was saying, "DON'T SINK--DON'T SINK !!" Darn contraption had a hair lip. So yes, audible warnings can detract from your actual performance and required attention.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Doing a full stop at stop signs is annoying. It takes too long to hit 0mph and does it too far back. Thanks NHTSA!

You should thank Tesla for that turd, not the NHTSA! The problem is not that it comes to a full stop. The problem is that it does not use full regen to do so (as you allude to). It should ramp quick to full regen, perfectly timed to stop at the line, just like a skilled human.

Right now it starts stopping about 2-3x as far from the stop sign as it should, doesn’t decelerate fast enough, and somehow also creates more jerk than an optimal stop!

I have to override on every single stop sign to get appropriate behavior.

Tesla knows how to do this. They created the regen profile I use to stop. I don’t do anything - I just let off the accelerator at the right time. Pretty sure this is what everybody does…

With everything the car knows, in most cases it should be able to stop perfectly on the line every single time. It seems to do a little better at traffic lights (though it is far from good), which is odd.

 

[PACEMD]

I STILL haven't gotten the update yet. What am I chopped liver? I have always gotten updates with the first 5-10%, but NOOOOOOO, not this time. I always knew someone had to be the last, just always figured that was reserved for you losers........

 

[PACEMD]

No seriously, I don't care about all that it did does doesn't do this stuff or the other, I just really really want the speed limit at 80 mph to go away.........really messes me up on my commute.

 

[Supcom]

Went out this evening and did a bunch more unprotected lefts and rights with some serious sight blockages to the left from fences or walls. Once again, FSD beta was not perfect, but still much improved over previous versions. I feel like a few cases FSD entered the intersection before it really had a chance to see if there was approaching traffic. There wasn't any, so maybe it was a correct decision.

The unprotected rights were done at an intersection with a high wall very close to the road on the left that makes it hard even for human drivers to navigate safely. I found FSD occasionally moved into the oncoming lane while creeping and once it refused to move even after oncoming traffic was completely clear. On previous versions, I would only allow FSD to attempt this turn if I could crane my neck forward to see the way was clear as the car started it's creep. This time, I was confident enough to allow FSD to make 6 attempts, generally with acceptable results. There still needs to be improvement, but this is a very difficult right turn. Left turns are even worse. I may wait for 10.13.x before trying those!

All turns were smoothly executed.

I may stick a gopro above the B-pillar camera so I can record what the car sees when it commits to the turn.

I went out and manually positioned the car at this intersection to give the best possible view while staying out of opposing traffic. The B-pillar camera view was improved, but still not good enough. However, the left repeater camera had an unobstructed view of all three lanes of the road. Quite nice, actually:

So, even this intersection could be done safely, if the car would position itself pointing downroad more and pull as far forward as possible. I will look forward to additional testing as new versions come out knowing that it is not a pipe dream!

I don't believe you could ever get sufficient visibility to make a left turn here, but the median does not permit a left turn. In that regard, the highway engineers did their job.

 

[Z_Lynx]

... suddenly decided to make a left into a neighbors driveway (???)

Yes! New behavior with 12.2. I wrote about this - first time it corrected before the actual left turn, second time I thought I'd let it self-correct but it turned and almost ran into the prominent mailbox on the far side of the driveway. Navigation map clearly showed the destination further down the road.

Things like this complicate our own learning of what to expect from fsd so we can focus on other behaviors -- but in truth, we can never really trust the car to do the predictable thing.

 

[sleepydoc]

Right now it starts stopping about 2-3x as far from the stop sign as it should, doesn’t decelerate fast enough, and somehow also creates more jerk than an optimal stop!

Yeah - behaviors like that are annoying, but assuming the car can accurately estimate the distance they’re also relatively easy to fix.

I think the FSD team is focusing on the bigger issues, like turning into traffic and estimating turn trajectories.

 

[EVNow]

Yes! New behavior with 12.2. I wrote about this - first time it corrected before the actual left turn, second time I thought I'd let it self-correct but it turned and almost ran into the prominent mailbox on the far side of the driveway. Navigation map clearly showed the destination further down the road.

Things like this complicate our own learning of what to expect from fsd so we can focus on other behaviors -- but in truth, we can never really trust the car to do the predictable thing.

12.2 seems more unpredictable than 11.2.

With 11.2 we knew what kind of things it got wrong (usually near intersections). But 12.2 does some sudden stuff on empty simple marked roads that even AP wouldn't mess up.

 

[aronth5]

I did a bunch of beta 10.12.2 unprotected right turns at my nightmare intersection with a GoPro camera positioned just above the left B-pillar camera. This intersection has a wall with elevated parking lot creating severe sight blockage to the left. The GoPro allowed me to see virtually the same image available to the car as it creeps so I can see whether the car is positioned adequately to make this turn safely.

The below image is a screenshot taken from the point where the car ends its creep (when it does actually stop!). You can obviosly see the large truck in the center lane. But, notice the pickup truck that is just barely coming into view. It is way too close to the intersection for FSDb to proceed. Only a small fraction of a second earlier, the pickup could not be seen by the car. The truck certainly cannot be seen by the forward cameras because the car is turned slightly to the right.

This is a truly nightmare intersection as you must get your sensor (eyes or camera) up to the level of the sidewalk in order to see the rightmost oncoming lane. For human drivers, this is very difficult as it requires them to accurately place the front of the car right to the edge of the lane in order to be able to move their head forward far enough to see. It may be possible for a Tesla to do this if the car is angled a bit more to the right to get the B-pillar camera a bit further forward. Perhaps I'll try to do that while driving manually.

The crossroad here was widened a few years ago, which created the obstructing wall. Apparently, the highway dept. didn't want to purchase the strip center next to the road and convinced themselves that it was a good idea to block visibility on a road with 50+ mph cross traffic.

Happy testing.

IMO this is the achilles heal of FSD. The reliance on the B-pillar camera and the fact the forward cameras cannot see 90 degrees left/right is going to diminish FSD when accidents get reported once you have owners who rely on FSD without carefully watching every turn.

 

[Ramphex]

I wish there was an option for the car to give the messages audibly. Would be safer than looking away from the road to read the screen.

I want that for navigation too. A chime for up-coming turns. The GPS lady talks too damn much, ruining my music. I tweeted it to Musk before but I’m no shill so it went into the abyss.

 

[mjlef1]

I want that for navigation too. A chime for up-coming turns. The GPS lady talks too damn much, ruining my music. I tweeted it to Musk before but I’m no shill so it went into the abyss.

turn down the Navigation volume