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Sigh! In California, you must merge into the bike lane for a right turn (after the solid line turns to dashes). That way there is no confusion about who goes next.
Yeah, I was surprised by the difference when we moved here from Sacramento. I discovered it studying for my OR license. And speaking of dashed lines, I think there's an exception to what I stated above when the line is dashed. But I don't see that in this part of Oregon.
 
Does not move to the side of the lane for the upcoming turn. Remains in the center of the lane and makes the turn from there. Got honked at by people behind me several times
Interesting. See my post above about it moving illegally into bike lanes for upcoming turns. They need to get all the nuances down, including variations in law in different jusrisdictions.
 
Wild speculation here: I wonder if the red lights are LED. And, rather than being on all the time, they actually flash multiple times per second, fast enough that the eye sees them as continuous. However, if their flash rate is close to, but not exactly the same as, a multiple of the camera scan rate, then it could set up a beat where the Tesla would catch them off sometimes and on other times, and think they were flashing red lights and treat them like a stop sign?

Like I said, just speculation.
Interesting thought. I have a digital camera with a feature that can detect the strobing of artificial light sources (usually invisible to human eyes). It uses that to time the exposure for when the artifical light is on and not off. Seems Tesla may be able to use something like that to detect and compensate to read the LED lights correctly.
 
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The Waze for Tesla web page doesn't work (again) because this version broke the location info (again). Hope that's fixed (again) soon!
Good news on this: It turns out that Tesla actually made an improvement in this version for sites like Waze that require approval of the location info sharing for the browser. The improvements are accessed in the URL bar, and it was easy to overlook while driving. Here's what I found playing with it while parked.

This is great since the browser remembers your selection here so you don't have to provide permission every time:
1654819822495.png


If you need to change it, touch the location icon the right and you get some options:
1654819896661.png


Unfortunately, the page does still crash a lot.

The next improvement would be allow a home page to be set so you don't have select your bookmark each time.
 
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So the other day I was talking up the improvement I saw in 12.2 from back when i was on 10.6 before I traded my car, now a few days later I have some stories ...

PB is way better, no doubt. So to balance the scales all day today the car missed turns (about 5 times today)
By this I mean it would be coming up to the turn, navigation would show the turn, the car would be set up to get into the turn ;lane at about 1/4 mile out, then with in 500 feet or so from the intersection it would get in the far opposite lane??? And then when it got up to the actual intersection it would just sit there holding up traffic with its turn signal on trying to get back over to the turn lane. It seemed to be only left hand turns.

Yesterday when I was leaving my office it decided to pull up to a parked car near the exit lane of the parking lot...it just sat there like we were at an intersection...lol (of curse at an intersection it would not wait behind the car, it would try to pull out and pass every one else sitting in line waiting for the light to change). And then to keep it interesting it turned right toward a dead end...once again navigation had it going left like it had done a hundred times before in my old Raven on 10.6.

Did I mention PB is better...really.

There was one other episode today where it just suddenly sped up, shot right into a turn lane, then swooped back into the line of traffic as the turn lane was ending (all at bout 50mph). I have lots of performance driving training so i was confident enough to let it do its thing. It did correct but it was really strange. I saved the dash cam clip to watch but have not had a chance to do so yet.

Anyway, I am not complaining, I signed up for this and i still find it amazing where we are. I know we are not where Elon said we were supposed to be but it is still very impressive. Let me consider this fact, although not anywhere near perfect, I have a car that drives itself! Pretty cool ot be a part of the pioneering phase of such a futuristic thing...at least to me.
 
Is anyone getting these hard routes for FSD to follow. There is a difficult horseshoe curve below the crossroads circle.The highway to the right would be more direct and easier.

I’ve done it three nights without issues. 12/.2 is doing real good for me.
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That's nothing new for me. The routing used by Tesla is FSD's Achilles heel. I am constantly impressed at the bizarre routes, using roads and streets that no human driver would ever choose (unless they were fleeing law enforcement). If waypoints worked correctly, the driver could tailor the route. But even with that option, an alternate route still can't be saved for future use.
 
I think the biggest issue is it's almost processing things TOO fast. Humans have a reaction time whereas FSD is always making small adjustments to decisions. It does jerky maneuvers for minute details we would plan ahead for or make one larger subtle corrective measure. Maybe a memory issue as AI foresight has been already solved.

It also needs to take a more defensive approach for passenger comfort, if we don't have a turn coming I usually pick the outside left turn lane for more room, not the most "optimized" route.
 
That's nothing new for me. The routing used by Tesla is FSD's Achilles heel. I am constantly impressed at the bizarre routes, using roads and streets that no human driver would ever choose (unless they were fleeing law enforcement). If waypoints worked correctly, the driver could tailor the route. But even with that option, an alternate route still can't be saved for future use.
I would totally agree, my FSD issues are all related to the Nav system. I have gotten to the point I'll set three waypoints to get the nav to go the way I want it to. Then delete stops as I travel. In my case I have been running FSD for a year and probably 20K miles, and AP for four years. Why all the sudden has FSD started picking these bizzarro routes to travel. This route started with 12.2 and NEVER before, I have three alternate routes I can take home that are a lot easier than this one. There is NO traffic on the road to even cause this. It is like NAV has gotten worse than our windshield wipers.

Is the mother ship requesting alternate routes to gain data?? I would not think so, this is why the number of testers has grown so much. In my area there are so many Tesla's running around I'm sure these roads have been mapped out. I cant be filling in holes in there FSD mapping system. Hopefully I haven't been hack and there not recording the building sites I'm passing.😉

Why cant Tesla incorporate the old bread crumb features used in the Garmin. Or better yet Waze. Why does Elon think he has to reinvent the wheel every step of the way. Afraid to pay some royalties to another company?
 
Why all the sudden has FSD started picking these bizzarro routes to travel. This route started with 12.2 and NEVER before, I have three alternate routes I can take home that are a lot easier than this one. There is NO traffic on the road to even cause this. It is like NAV has gotten worse than our windshield wipers.

Is the mother ship requesting alternate routes to gain data??
In my experience, the nav on a FSD Beta car sometimes purposely chooses routes that are less efficient but easier to drive. As an example, my morning commute to work has an obvious best path forward, and is the path that the nav had taken since I got the car in 2018. I got into FSD Beta on the initial rollout, and it was unable to make a required UPL (literally failed and quit every single time). On the next FSD update (10.3, I think?), the nav suddenly switched to avoid this turn and instead drove further up the road, making a much easier UPL that also makes the trip slightly longer and less energy efficient.

Another data point on that - I have it set to auto-route me to work in the morning. When I first get in the car, the directions show the original, more difficult UPL turn. Once I kick it into drive, though, it changes to avoid it. It doesn't matter if I engage FSD or drive manually - that's what the nav gives me regardless.

So, FSD Beta users should know that their nav won't necessarily give them the "best" route to their destination. I presume that, eventually, we'll go back to the same nav as non-beta cars once they're more confident of its abilities, but right now our navigation is on easy mode :)
 
Correct me if I'm wrong - FSD Beta doesn't learn without new updates, correct?

For some reason, I feel the car is driving better and better since I received the initial Beta. Yesterday was the best drive by a good margin.

One example is a place on our city where the road all of a sudden goes 'S' curve to split 2 lane into 3, to make a room for a left turn. But they did it so drastically just before the traffic light that no one abbeys the lane marks here, and just drive on the yellow crossed out section to get to the left turn lane. I remember when I first arrived on this city, my reaction was like 'this is a stupid design'. And I had to disengage the Beta 3 times so far because it was doing the 'S' way too fast, just to brake hard after that. And few times, I had to disengage early and just drive manually over the yellow section.

But yesterday, it decided to drive through the yellow line. Zero disengagement on that trip. Fluke? We'll find out soon enough. 😄

It also did other drives quite nicely, almost acceptable now. Seems to corner less hard too. Tried the round about for the first time, and it was quite a pleasant experience.

Overall, my wife also mentions that the Beta seems to be getting smoother and getting things right more and more often.
 
In my experience, the nav on a FSD Beta car sometimes purposely chooses routes that are less efficient but easier to drive. As an example, my morning commute to work has an obvious best path forward, and is the path that the nav had taken since I got the car in 2018. I got into FSD Beta on the initial rollout, and it was unable to make a required UPL (literally failed and quit every single time). On the next FSD update (10.3, I think?), the nav suddenly switched to avoid this turn and instead drove further up the road, making a much easier UPL that also makes the trip slightly longer and less energy efficient.

Another data point on that - I have it set to auto-route me to work in the morning. When I first get in the car, the directions show the original, more difficult UPL turn. Once I kick it into drive, though, it changes to avoid it. It doesn't matter if I engage FSD or drive manually - that's what the nav gives me regardless.

So, FSD Beta users should know that their nav won't necessarily give them the "best" route to their destination. I presume that, eventually, we'll go back to the same nav as non-beta cars once they're more confident of its abilities, but right now our navigation is on easy mode :)

Oddly my car has picked some difficult routes. An unprotected left at a blind crossing. that one failed most of the time in the early beta but is now making it properly. If my car would go the proper route to work it only has to make one right turn. If I go It's way I make an additional 3 rights and 3 lefts. I assumed it was wanting to practice, just like my new night route.

I started with 10.4 beta in the second roll out group and never had map issues until 12.2 came out.

I can see what your talking about. when I go to the grocery store, it would be a left into an immediate right turn changing lanes instantly. it runs out of room and cant do it the moves in time. You and I would simply turn left into the far right then turn right. It wants to stay in left then change lanes. Beta has me run up to the second entrance where it does have time to change lanes.
 
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I can see what your talking about. when I go to the grocery store, it would be a left into an immediate right turn changing lanes instantly. it runs out of room and cant do it the moves in time. You and I would simply turn left into the far right then turn right. It wants to stay in left then change lanes. Beta has me run up to the second entrance where it does have time to change lanes.
FSD is doing the legal thing there, but not the "normal driver" thing. Legally, you are always required to turn into the closest driving line (leftmost lane from a left turn, rightmost lane from a right turn), then safely signal and move over without creating any unsafe conditions yourself.

But we all know this is not usual or necessarily practical. In fact it can end up being more unsafe, because other turning cars behind you will likely not follow this legal guideline, and may already have occupied the lane you subsequently need to get into. Then if an accident occurs because of your now-unsafe merge, you will be the at-fault party despite the fact that the driver behind you executed his turn illegally by not taking the closest lane. It's one of the classic paradoxes of driving choices.

If you discuss this with a traffic policeman or a driving-school instructor, you're likely to be told that you should plan your route to avoid this scenario, and not to put yourself in this situation where you had to choose between the illegal wide turn vs. the inadvisable quick move to the opposite lane, to complete the second turn. In some cases that pre-planning might have been practical, but in many cases it would be kind of ridiculous and nobody would do it.

Tesla navigation + FSD is not taking this kind of thing into account as far as I can see. If it did follow the "official" advice above, everyone would complain that it's choosing a stupid route. If it took the wide turn like everyone else does, critics would say that it's being programmed to do illegal maneuvers.

There are all kinds of things like this in real-world driving, and they won't be easily solved until autonomous vehicles become the dominant road users.
 
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FSD is doing the legal thing there, but not the "normal driver" thing. Legally, you are always required to turn into the closest driving line (leftmost lane from a left turn, rightmost lane from a right turn), then safely signal and move over without creating any unsafe conditions yourself.
In Texas, this is not necessarily the case. For right hand turns, you are required to turn into the rightmost lane that is "practicable". Left turns require only to turn into a legal lane, unless you are turning onto a one way street.

But "practicable" is the key word and, IMHO, provides an exception for when there is a very short distance to another turn in the opposite direction, or when the closest lane is a turn-only lane. I have several intersections that I frequent which fall into both of these cases. FSD beta has a hard time with them because it is so dogged about it's lane choice.

Other states' code may vary, of course.

Sec. 545.101. TURNING AT INTERSECTION. (a) To make a right turn at an intersection, an operator shall make both the approach and the turn as closely as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.
(b) To make a left turn at an intersection, an operator shall:
(1) approach the intersection in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to a vehicle moving in the direction of the vehicle; and
(2) after entering the intersection, turn left, leaving the intersection so as to arrive in a lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of the vehicle on the roadway being entered.
 
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But we all know this is not usual or necessarily practical. In fact it can end up being more unsafe, because other turning cars behind you will likely not follow this legal guideline, and may already have occupied the lane you subsequently need to get into. Then if an accident occurs because of your now-unsafe merge, you will be the at-fault party despite the fact that the driver behind you executed his turn illegally by not taking the closest lane. It's one of the classic paradoxes of driving choices.
I get it, but it's still weird that a maneuver can be the legal requirement but "unsafe" because everyone else breaks the law.

However, your car would immediately signal to change lanes, and if the person behind you turned into the adjacent lane and was in your blind spot, the car wouldn't complete the lane change, and you would likely miss your upcoming right turn.

Problem is easily solved when we eliminate all human drivers. :)
 
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Other states' code may vary, of course....
A couple of years ago I was pulled over for this very thing, left turn followed by an immediate right into a filling station. I had a friendly discussion with the officer. I pointed out that there was another car turning immediately behind me who also turned wide (even though he didn't need to turn right). If I had tried to do leftmost-lane-then-signal-and-move-right, it would only have encouraged him to trail me right in my blind spot or overtake me, and make for a risky situation.

The deputy said yeah I know what you mean but it's still illegal, and also that he chose to pull me over instead of the other guy, because I was in front and because I turned so it was easier to get to me. I think it was so late at night that he had nothing else to do. We had a nice talk and he let me off with a verbal warning, essentially "it wasn't really wrong but don't let it happen again".

The fact is I still do exactly the same thing regularly, because I'd rather risk an unlikely ticket than to risk a possible accident.

I also don't always come to a 0 mph stop at stop signs when there's nobody around (shhh). But I'm pretty sure that I'm not under constant NHTSA scrutiny - and I'm positive that I'm not a politically recalcitrant billionaire.
 
Yeah, I was surprised by the difference when we moved here from Sacramento. I discovered it studying for my OR license. And speaking of dashed lines, I think there's an exception to what I stated above when the line is dashed. But I don't see that in this part of Oregon.
How about this? I approach a traffic light and the car makes a right turn into a bike lane and continues to use it for about 500 ft before it merges left onto oncoming traffic. It's been doing this for as long as I've been in FSD beta(9 months). IT seems to think the bike lane is an actual car lane.
 
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