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It’s a fun hypothetical thought experiment. Basically assume inf miles, inf parameters, inf compute.

In theory the network will learn all useful information/signal from the observed data and store it in its parameters. But I think another more important thing is that the neural network will likely start to misbehave with mesa optimizers and inner alignment:

TLDR: the neural network will smart enough and have a good enough understanding of the of world to realize that it’s being run in a simulation and is being rewarded for being run in the simulation and will try to optimize this by for example taking over the world and making sure the training will never stop and why not make the training a bit more rewarding while it’s at it.
Thanks for this. I've seen a number of references to Robert Miles but I never watched his channel before. Today I watched a few; all were informative and thought-provoking. Very intellectual. Then I went outside and pulled weeds in the heat. I hope I'll be able to buy an AI robot that I can deploy for those tasks, before it learns to take over and deploy me.
 
After some additional drives I've decided not to use 10.12.2 in and out of my neighborhood. The problem is I have 3 turns all within a tenth of mile of each other and FSD accelerates too quickly only to have to hit the brakes hard to slow down for the next turn. Good example of a release taking a step backward because this is how FSD behaved when I first started last October but was subsequently addressed.

Have others noticed this behavior?
I experience similar in my neighborhood. I turn down the speed to 15 mph for stops and turns. It is just too jumpy "out of the gate" for comfort. After I am passed the whipsaw spot, I turn the speed back up to 20-25 mph.
 
After some additional drives I've decided not to use 10.12.2 in and out of my neighborhood. The problem is I have 3 turns all within a tenth of mile of each other and FSD accelerates too quickly only to have to hit the brakes hard to slow down for the next turn. Good example of a release taking a step backward because this is how FSD behaved when I first started last October but was subsequently addressed.

Have others noticed this behavior?
Yes same exact for me. I really hope they can revert speeds/behavior in narrow residential neighborhoods back to previous version.

My neighborhood has 4 way intersections with limited visibility and either just two yield signs, or else no traffic control whatsoever (hard to believe, I know). Beta has always blown right through them unless there’s cross traffic but now it’s even more dangerous because of the speed. I know dirty tesla and others prefer that beta mostly disregard yield signs, but not me! I’ve already had one near-miss accident because it blows through the yield sign near my house.

On a related note, I noticed yesterday that the option to enable set speed based on current (vs speed limit) is greyed out. I’m not sure how long it’s been that way but do others have that too? The problem with speed limit determination is of course incorrect speed limit map data which is frequent in certain areas.
 
Leaving my neighborhood, I have a right turn at a stop sign, with an extremely short merging lane immediately after. It seems that FSD/mapping recognizes that as a situation where it doesn't need to wait for a gap in cross traffic and just fully sends it into the turn after touching 0mph way too far back. Really wish I could do a true driveway to driveway FSD drive, but there's no way I can keep letting the car turn like that
 
From my testing the last week or so, FSD 10.12 (2022.12.3.20) seems to have gone backward in some situations. Overall it's still very solid, and I haven't seen any PB events of greater than 5 mph slow down, highway or local.
  • On a state highway, a 2-mi stretch has 3 intersections with horizontally-arranged traffic lights. All 3 were green as I was driving up to them, but the car slows down with an on-screen message saying "slowing and stopping for traffic control signal in 400 ft (300, 200, etc.)". These lights are not flashing, but normal green. I had to disengage because I'm sure it's coming to a full stop each time. The speed limit is 55 mph and there are plenty of cars behind me.
  • At several traffic lights elsewhere, I noticed the visualization area showing a greenlight much closer to the first car (literally) on top of the car when it displays the normal traffic lights (in the intersection) that are red correctly. There is no such green lights in those intersections (potential possibilities are green arrows for right-turning lanes, but they weren't present).
  • This may be just camera related, but I mentioned this in another thread, visualization shows a big semi-trailer a foot from me when I drive into my garage. It's my left garage wall. I can reproduce this every time, so it's consistent.
 
* Not FSD beta specific but it tried to stop for traffic control (stop sign?) on the freeway twice; it was anticipating the stop so I’m not sure what happened. I thought it might’ve been a confused GPS but then it happened on the way back. Not sure if the same spot. It even drew a stop line.
Took this route again, freshly washed car, got the same result. In one direction the stopline was roughly placed over an intersection below the freeway, but the one on the way back was somewhere in between surface streets so not sure if it's a GPS issue. Also it was definitely anticipating a stop sign from several hundred feet away. Very strange.
 
After another 300km worth of FSD Beta on rural roads to camp sites, I've experienced some hard PBs. Not obvious what caused it, but I reported every single one of them. But other than odd PBs here and there, rural driving is so much more relaxing with FSD Beta than AP, because it handles stop signs/traffic lights, and also allows far more than +10km over speed limits. At +10km/h, I get tailgates all the time.

I'm going to continue to report as many Beta errors as I can. Hopefully by the time Cybertruck is out, and we have more time to enjoy outdoors with better equipment. Hope some of my current work will be positively reflected there in the form of a later version of FSD..

By the way, we equipped our car with Exped Megamat and it was super comfy sleeping in the car at the camp site with no electricity. So easy to pack and go too.... Camp Mode rocks! We are really looking forward to more multi-day trips in our Y with some help from FSD Beta (and less PB). 😄
 
I am not sure how I feel about the yellow light logic. We have blinking yellow lights for intersections where the fire departments depart from. Sometimes the car will slow down a little as it goes through the yellow blinking light. This seems to translate to normal yellow lights where it slows down and doesnt stop thus causing me to have to either jab the brakes or accelerator to get through the light before it turns red (if I can).

It does’t feel very safe in these situations.
 
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I am not sure how I feel about the yellow light logic. We have blinking yellow lights for intersections where the fire departments depart from. Sometimes the car will slow down a little as it goes through the yellow blinking light. This seems to translate to normal yellow lights where it slows down and doesnt stop thus causing me to have to either jab the brakes or accelerator to get through the light before it turns red (if I can).

It does’t feel very safe in these situations.
I have found FSDb to be quite good at determining whether it will enter the intersection before the light turns red. I have had one or two cases over the last six months where it missed it, but just barely. It certainly should be able to do this well since it knows the car's speed and how far from the intersection.

It takes a bit of faith not to intervene here.
 
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I have found FSDb to be quite good at determining whether it will enter the intersection before the light turns red. I have had one or two cases over the last six months where it missed it, but just barely. It certainly should be able to do this well since it knows the car's speed and how far from the intersection.

It takes a bit of faith not to intervene here.
Yeah I am going to have to keep trying it. My normal commute has few lights, but today I took the “long” way home.
 
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This weekend I drove out on the 120 mile round trip that I've driven countless times with 10.11.2
This was my first decently longish drive I've had on 10.12.2 and not while there are some improvements, there are also the standard "two steps back"
Biggest things I noticed now is on fast sweeping right curves, the car drifts uncomfortably to the left side of the lane, but doesn't drift like that for left hand curves.
Some flashing yellow warning lights where better, now it only slows down instead of trying to stop. But others it still tries to stop and give the red handed take over now screaming warnings.
The biggest complaint and regression I've seen is the way its dropped back to taking corners as a series of straight lines - makes it very uncomfortable.
 
I'm still experiencing regular failures with FSD 10.12.2 with bike lanes, where it makes a right turn into a marked bike lane, which then narrows, and the car freaks out, with "Take over immediately" followed by "Autosteer aborted for system error". (Also note the usual herky-jerky steering getting out of the lot.) This was at Casitas Pass Rd in Carpinteria off the 101, this afternoon.

 
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Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I've got a safety score of 98. When the rollout of 10.12 started I actually had a score of 99, but I guess I slipped. What do I need to do to get the rollout. I've been requesting to be in the beta program for a long time.
 
I'm still experiencing regular failures with FSD 10.12.2 with bike lanes, where it makes a right turn into a marked bike lane, which then narrows, and the car freaks out, with "Take over immediately" followed by "Autosteer aborted for system error". (Also note the usual herky-jerky steering getting out of the lot.) This was at Casitas Pass Rd in Carpinteria off the 101, this afternoon.

The old bike lane issue.. I've been experiencing that same issue for the last 9 months. They should have a fix after 9 months of reporting. The pace of progress seems to be so slow...
 
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So to balance the scales all day today the car missed turns (about 5 times today)
I got FSD beta last week, and that exactly what I saw a lot of. It was almost like there was a disconnect between the GPS‘s route and FSD. Twice I was at a 2-way stop, and the route had us turning left. The road was clear on both sides. The car pulled forward, nervously moved the steering wheel back and forth, and then went straight.

Later I was pulling out of a shopping center onto the single street that ran along it (so I was effectively stopped at T Intersection). Again the car was supposed to turn left, but instead it did it’s nervous steering wheel jiggle before deciding “f-it” and going right. In this case it may have been spooked by the suicide lane in the middle of the road that had yellow stripes on either side of it.

I’m new to this - does FSDbeta often ignore the planned route?
 
I'd like to see future releases address John Wooden's famous quote "be quick but don't hurry".
"if you hurry, you are more likely to make mistakes, but if you're not quick, you won't get things done."

Often FSD has the right idea but hesitates and fails to take the appropriate action. Other times FSD is not quick enough to make decisions by failing to adjust to new vision information.
 
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