FSD Beta 10.12

[dramsey]

Plunges right ahead at 16mph into the intersection, veering way to the left across Brookburn, cutting the corner (it would have met anyone turning onto Brookburn head on; observe the lines on the concrete to get a reference point).

I've noticed my car cutting corners, but it always takes a wider turn when there's a car present. In other words it only cuts corners when there's no car to hit.

So far.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I've noticed my car cutting corners, but it always takes a wider turn when there's a car present. In other words it only cuts corners when there's no car to hit.

So far.

I'm not sure in this case how it would know, since I would not be able to see a car coming at the time it started corner cutting (obviously I was ready to react once the sightlines were clear).

In any case there would for certain be abrupt movements if another car did appear.

The corner cutting didn't surprise me but the speed did.

On the first go around, I forgot to hit "continue" in the nav (I had used a waypoint), and since a left turn wasn't needed, it just forged straight across the intersection without stopping (20+mph). While technically legal I think, it is disconcerting to a passenger and would guarantee (hopefully) an abrupt stop as soon as the vehicle detected cross traffic once the sightlines became clear.

The car needs to understand where there are implicit yields and approach them correctly. (These events were reported FWIW.)

 

[joelliot]

I'm not sure in this case how it would know, since I would not be able to see a car coming at the time it started corner cutting (obviously I was ready to react once the sightlines were clear).

In any case there would for certain be abrupt movements if another car did appear.

The corner cutting didn't surprise me but the speed did.

On the first go around, I forgot to hit "continue" in the nav (I had used a waypoint), and since a left turn wasn't needed, it just forged straight across the intersection without stopping (20+mph). While technically legal I think, it is disconcerting to a passenger and would guarantee (hopefully) an abrupt stop as soon as the vehicle detected cross traffic once the sightlines became clear.

The car needs to understand where there are implicit yields and approach them correctly.

The other place where this is a problem is coming out of parking lots. I know it isn't really designed for this now, but if you activate FSD in a parking lot, it will usually barrel out into the road at full speed like it has the right of way.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

In other words it only cuts corners when there's no car to hit.

I'm not sure in this case how it would know, since I would not be able to see a car coming at the time it started corner cutting (obviously I was ready to react once the sightlines were clear).

This is where the car started turning the wheel and the approximate path it took. Obviously there's no visibility (wall, house, etc.)

It did very briefly consider another plan after starting the turn, possibly only because there was another vehicle passing by (with accompanying wheel jitter), but just for a fraction of a second. Planner is revolutionary.

 

[sleepydoc]

by the way, I heard we should no longer say "oxymoron" as it offends persons of the protected group considered morons.
Like Lizzo recently got in trouble for a lyric of "spazzing out". It offends people who spaz out or something like that

Sorry- were you offended?

 

[sleepydoc]

I apologize for the pedantry, but I could not resist intervening here. Neither "quantum leap" nor "head over heels" are oxymorons. An oxymoron refers to the pairing of two words or terms that are in opposition to one another when separated, yet when paired somehow make sense; it is engaging to the listener or reader. Juliet calling Romeo a beautiful tyrant is an example of an oxymoron. The phrase "deafening silence" is also an oxymoron. "Jumbo shrimp" is not an oxymoron.

Quantum leap most definitely is. Quanta are the smallest possible steps while a leap is a large jump.

 

[2101Guy]

Sorry- were you offended?

That would be crazy!

(Ironically west coast libs dont find an issue with still saying the word "crazy"...as if that doesnt insult crazy people.)

 

[sleepydoc]

. I know it isn't really designed for this now

So by your own admission you’re criticizing the system for not doing something it wasn’t designed to do?

I've noticed my car cutting corners, but it always takes a wider turn when there's a car present. In other words it only cuts corners when there's no car to hit.

So far.

I had a case a few weeks ago where I made a left turn Onto a side road. There was a bus waiting to turn right from the side road and halfway through the turn a car started to pull out from behind the bus. I can’t say for sure if the car just pulled up to the stop line or if it had pulled beyond, into the intersection. I’m pretty certain it was the latter but regardless, it pulled forward to the point that it was in my turn trajectory. FSD saw the car and altered its trajectory on the fly without a hitch.

Humans routinely cut corners a bit tight when there’s no other traffic because it lets us take a larger arc, making the turn more comfortable at a given speed. If the sight lines are clear and it has the ability to adjust I don’t see an issue with FSDb doing it.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Humans routinely cut corners a bit tight when there’s no other traffic because it lets us take a larger arc, making the turn more comfortable at a given speed. If the sight lines are clear and it has the ability to adjust I don’t see an issue with FSDb doing it.

Except like above, right?

I mean, humans do NOT cut corners like this. Period. They do reasonable turns that are nice and smooth.

As you say, in certain situations you can turn wide and smooth the corner, but they are very specific (and I’ve actually found that it bothers my wife when I do so).

 

[sleepydoc]

Except like above, right?

I mean, humans do NOT cut corners like this. Period. They do reasonable turns that are nice and smooth.

As you say, in certain situations you can turn wide and smooth the corner, but they are very specific (and I’ve actually found that it bothers my wife when I do so).

I looked at your pictures and honestly couldn't get a good idea of what the car was doing so I can't say.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I looked at your pictures and honestly couldn't get a good idea of what the car was doing so I can't say.

Look at the last one with the path. It's super obvious. (You can look at the prior pictures to see where the lines on the concrete are.)

Rest assured humans do not drive this way; you can take my word for it.

Just as a another reference point, the car's left wheels went comfortably over this line on the left turn (see how the wheel is turned hard to the left); should make it clear enough that this is abnormal. I actually don't think a car could have squeezed by even if it wanted to. But this has been reported many times. It's also not new behavior I don't think.

Virtually every human will drive to the concrete, staying right of the imaginary lane line, slow to around 5mph, check for cross traffic, then initiate the turn. There's just not really any other way to do it.

As another reference point, you can just see where the "normal driving" Google car was relative to mine, again observing joints on the concrete:

 

[growltyger]

Quantum leap most definitely is. Quanta are the smallest possible steps while a leap is a large jump.

Perhaps but I think when used together quantum does not contradict leap.

 

[sleepydoc]

Perhaps but I think when used together quantum does not contradict leap.

So a leap is the smallest possible forward movement one can achieve?

 

[sleepydoc]

Look at the last one with the path. It's super obvious. (You can look at the prior pictures to see where the lines on the concrete are.)

Rest assured humans do not drive this way; you can take my word for it.

Just as a another reference point, the car's left wheels went comfortably over this line on the left turn (see how the wheel is turned hard to the left); should make it clear enough that this is abnormal. I actually don't think a car could have squeezed by even if it wanted to. But this has been reported many times. It's also not new behavior I don't think.

Virtually every human will drive to the concrete, staying right of the imaginary lane line, slow to around 5mph, check for cross traffic, then initiate the turn. There's just not really any other way to do it.

View attachment 820701View attachment 820702

As another reference point, you can just see where the "normal driving" Google car was relative to mine, again observing joints on the concrete:

View attachment 820708

Ok, if it’s what I think it is the. Yes, that’s tighter than most drivers would take that corner. What does it do if there’s another car there?

Looking at the pictures, the pavement/concrete is at odd/unusual angles so I wonder if that’s confusing FSD?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

What does it do if there’s another car there?

I assume it would stay in its lane if the car were visible already. If not visible until the last moment (quite possible obviously) it would be an embarrassing and abrupt jerking around I assume, with a bunch of honking and potential evasive action from the other driver.

the pavement/concrete is at odd/unusual angles so I wonder if that’s confusing FSD?

Maybe. I could try the other direction.

But remember the more (or at least equally) pressing issue here is the speed that it goes through this intersection. Remember when crossing directly across it proceeded without even slowing down. Very efficient, and legal, but my concern is that's not really actually a viable solution due to cross traffic. The car will probably stop but it's not going to be pleasant.

The car really has no choice other than to drive like a human with perfect vision, and lower speed sufficiently when approaching this yield so that if cross traffic is detected, it has sufficient time and low enough speed to slow down leisurely and smoothly (and not panic the crossing traffic of course!). As discussed elsewhere, on left turns, it's also usually not ok to turn the wheels until traffic is clear, and it is time to initiate the turn. This is the expected behavior and as a driver aid it must do that.

 

[MarcG]

So a leap is the smallest possible forward movement one can achieve?

"one small leap for man, one quantum leap for mankind"

Nah, doesn't work..

 

[PACEMD]

by the way, I heard we should no longer say "oxymoron" as it offends persons of the protected group considered morons.
Like Lizzo recently got in trouble for a lyric of "spazzing out". It offends people who spaz out or something like that

That's just straight-up (moderator edit), right?

 

[Sigma4Life]

The other place where this is a problem is coming out of parking lots. I know it isn't really designed for this now, but if you activate FSD in a parking lot, it will usually barrel out into the road at full speed like it has the right of way.

I see the same behavior when leaving the alleyway behind my house. It speeds out onto the main road as if the alleyway is the main street.

 

[jebinc]

Question to group:

Has anyone received 10.12 AFTER being on the 2022.16.x branch? Or only from 2022.12.x or lower?

 

[jebinc]

Question to group:

Has anyone received 10.12 AFTER being on the 2022.16.x branch? Or only from 2022.12.x or lower?

No one?