An interesting video with James Douma on current drives with FSD Beta, even comparing some logic between Tesla and Waymo's approach:
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FSD Beta 10.12
- Thread starter EVNow
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
“Indistinguishable from a good human driver…drives it as well as my mom”. Truly high praise; must have been sublime. (Note the pairing with a prior tweet.)
Sounds like Waymo is in trouble with their $200k sensor suite.
Personally I’m glad I wasn’t having to pass this Plaid on the 128. I imagine it would have been VERY frustrating.
I guess I have to take 10.12 out on some back roads to see what I’ve been missing.
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Haven't watched much; just the part where he's gushing about the hairpin turns.
My own experience with curvy roads matches what he's saying. There's been a night and day difference in improvement slowing down in advance for curves with near human-like smoothness. I haven't tested on a mountainous hairpin turn like what you'd see on the PCH or canyons, but there are pretty sharp curves that require <20mph speeds to navigate smoothly, and 10.12 is doing them very well. Consistently well.
There's a road near me that is along a waterfront, narrow, winding with very limited visibility at each bend, and mailboxes right at the edge of the road. The waterfront owners put boulders and reflective stakes at the edge of the road to prevent cars from being careless and going off the road at the apexes. Human drivers have to up their focus for this segment of road. FSD beta acing it every time, day, night, rain.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
It definitely sounds like I need to go out and try this somewhere (non-residential). Not a scenario I am typically in in daily driving, so I have to go find a road. It’s quite a different problem than driving around town. I’m most curious about the smoothness. Have a hard time believing it, but definitely have not tried it with 10.12. Maybe I’ll try Highland Valley Road; probably the most convenient and shortest option.
Really good to hear but then you have a simple curve near me that I have to adjust the speed to 25 otherwise the car will cross over the yellow line and make a jarring right hand turn around a slight incline. This is one of the first tests I do when I get a new release. It's actually gotten worse and the car never reduces the speed as it enters the turn. (Did better pre FSD). Of course this in no way diminishes the great improvement you and others are seeing just an outlier that Tesla will eventually resolve.
Second drive with FSD beta today. I ended up taking a road where the shoulder was being used for the bicycle portion of a triathlon and it performed very well, i.e. would move to the left if a bicycle was too close to my lane.
One odd thing is that at a red light it slowed down almost to a stop, and then started to speed up even though the light was still red. I put on the brakes rather than see if it would go through the light. Last week at the same light it came to a full stop, and even started and stopped when the light turned green and someone ran the light. Any idea what what was happening?
One odd thing is that at a red light it slowed down almost to a stop, and then started to speed up even though the light was still red. I put on the brakes rather than see if it would go through the light. Last week at the same light it came to a full stop, and even started and stopped when the light turned green and someone ran the light. Any idea what what was happening?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
It just goes sometimes on red lights without (and with) stopping. Hasn’t happened enough to me to hypothesize about what the common thread might be.
Normal stuff anyway. No worries.
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Is the Stop light that is controlling the road your intersecting with very visible to FSD from the road you're on? If yes FSD may be responding to the Stop light when it turns green for the other road. I have this problem.
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sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Is the light an LES light? If so, is it solid or blinking in the display?
No, but looking at the intersection on Google maps I can see that the right lane has a right turn arrow which probably turned green as I was approaching the intersection. Maybe that plus the absence of cross traffic confused it.
Not sure, will check next time. It does seem like the light has been updated relatively recently (sometime in the last 15 years?), since it has a relatively new right turn arrow in the right lane.
FSDtester#1
Craves Electrolytes
Is it possible, and I am being serious that some of our cars have a better mcu for beta or better camera resolution than others. My 2021 MS plaid just drove all the way, 350 miles from Tampa to Marathon in the keys with no stopping to charge and 4 interventions. Of course, 80% was Noa but I had 4 interventions... I mean wtf..Miami traffic is no joke. This doesn't match up with others experiences on this forum... I am seriously considering that Tesla has minor configuration differences in some of their cars built in last couple of years 
?
?I imagine this “$200k sensor suite” is much more about being an insurance policy rather than required for most of the raw functionality, it’s the price of building in the sheer layers of redundancy that should help prevent serious crashes that an AV company will be liable for when vehicles are operating in a way that actually takes ownership of the driving task.
I’m sure they crunch these numbers at a corporate level, but they’re likely looking at how much $$$ reduces what % likelihood of a serious crash and are weighing the cost versus benefit. Or they might be going full bore at this stage and just throwing in everything plus the kitchen sink with the goal of reducing the risk as much as possible regardless of cost, because that’s the right thing to do.
I think it could be speculated whether Tesla will ever take liability for any of this stuff, Autopark remains the one and only AP function that isn’t Beta in Tesla’s suite.
Until Tesla proves otherwise by taking ownership of the DDT with current hardware, I’m thinking that going from $20 cameras to a $200k sensor suite is what happens simply when you remove that “driver is responsible at all times” verbiage.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
...no?
I mean, some folks DO have a better MCU- but that isn't what the beta uses to drive-- there's a separate driving computer for that-- currently HW3, and it's the same silicon for everyone (there's a physically different mount and stuff for 3/Y vs S/X though)
The cameras there's not been anything new in many years other than small changes to exterior bits (molding, seals, etc) not the actual sensors, .- as we know from both the parts catalogs and folks like Green having access to config files.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I tried this. It’s a good test case with sharp blind turns and steep hills.
It did better than I expected but it was definitely not sublime. Unfortunately got caught behind someone going slow after a couple miles (so actually it was quite aggressive and not really slow through the drive - though to be clear, nowhere near as fast as someone who actually wanted to drive the road). I did take some videos but not worth showing them due to the various interruptions.
Biggest issue were sudden slowdowns for turns where it would obviously need to slow down for it to be comfortable with the turn. Just somewhat erratic and not smooth in the setup. The steering was overall quite smooth (not to say perfect). Biased a little bit too far to the edge of the road probably but personal preference, and might be safer.
I have no idea what Douma was seeing on 128 but I have my doubts - I guess I could see someone who didn’t like driving curvy roads thinking the Highland Valley Road drive was sublime. Though I have a hard time reconciling that with the occasional jerky slowdowns which I would think would bother anyone. And I doubt it is because the Plaid has better hardware.
Anyway this road isn’t too far from me (I had never driven it), so worth a try in future versions and it’s a nice drive anyway. Lots of vineyards so in future I’ll be able to do a tasting and then let FSD drive me home.
Someone crossed the center line on a turn and I had to disengage to avoid them (though, notably, later course correction than I would have without FSD), so I guess it’s common.The word "leap" can also mean "a quick movement". A quantum leap is a sudden movement of an electron between one energy level and the next level. Not large. Sudden.
Colloquially, the term means a sudden advancement. Such advancements may be large, but are not necessarily so.
Thus, it's not an oxymoron.
Xepa777
Banned
I honestly don’t think Tesla is going to nail robotaxis u til the logic decision making becomes NN as well. Hard coding rules is going to be impossible with all the edge cases.
Has anyone else experience Jeckel and Hyde? Quick trip to the store, Almost perfect on the way there (correct lanes, nice and smooth, turned nicely into the parking lot of the store.) I did have to control speed slightly, but very nice!
On the way back, veered suddenly and quickly to the right (trying to get two lanes over to the right) on a left turn as I approached the turn leaving the parking lot. Then, the car tried to take an exit ramp onto a highway when the directions were to go straight. THEN, the car tried to go after stopping at a red light (with the light still red.)
Whew! Keeps you on your toes, I have to say. I love being a beta tester!
On the way back, veered suddenly and quickly to the right (trying to get two lanes over to the right) on a left turn as I approached the turn leaving the parking lot. Then, the car tried to take an exit ramp onto a highway when the directions were to go straight. THEN, the car tried to go after stopping at a red light (with the light still red.)
Whew! Keeps you on your toes, I have to say. I love being a beta tester!
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