FSD Beta 10.12

[black knight 3]

I have to wonder how much of the delay is due to Elon wandering back into the FSD lab where all the programmers are working furiously and making some grand pronouncement that stops progress in its tracks, like "We're going to move to a vision-only system! Get cracking! No more radar!"

(Yeah, but this is how it plays out in my head...)

There are many very technical videos on YouTube about the details of Tesla FSD, typically presentations by whoever's the head of the team at the time, or leads a particular sub-project. There was one by a guy on all the work they did the bring vision results for determining distance and velocity of objects up to the precision they'd previously had with radar. They've apparently done it, but it wasn't easy, and watching the presentation I kept thinking "Why didn't they just stick with radar? How much did re-architecting the system for vision-only nuke the schedule?"

I just remember the days of radar being more sensitive and precise when pulling into the garage. with vision, it's all over the place when trying to interpret the distance from car to wall. I use to enjoy squeezing as closely as possibly to the wall with confidence. Currently, it's not an option that I can use in very tight spaces..

 

[MP3Mike]

I just remember the days of radar being more sensitive and precise when pulling into the garage. with vision, it's all over the place when trying to interpret the distance from car to wall. I use to enjoy squeezing as closely as possibly to the wall with confidence. Currently, it's not an option that I can use in very tight spaces..

Radar was never used to display distance, that has always been, and still is, the ultrasonic sensors. Any chance you have had PPF/wrap applied to the sensors since they were working well?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Man, FSD is indeed hard.

Yes, this has been evident to many, except wishful thinkers, for many years! It’s a very difficult problem! Hopefully in 5 years or so there will be some substantial progress with computer vision and AI. There’s hope, but it is very hard to predict whether or not it will be possible in five years, or even ten. The coding part seems really extremely difficult too, unless AGI is solved - the number of corner cases is ridiculous, and they are incredibly common (unlike the name would suggest).

 

[diplomat33]

Apologies if this has already been discussed but I found this clip from Hyperchange's FSD Beta video from May, where FSD Beta goes down a one way street in the wrong direction, towards incoming cars:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1542552674880704515

I suspect that FSD Beta cannot read one way signs and any nav map data does not have one street information either. But this is a huge flaw in FSD Beta and why it is not ready to be a robotaxi, despite what some fans claim.

But also, Gali should have intervened sooner, especially since he noticed the car was confused with changing the turn signals. So he knew something was wrong before it made the turn but says "let's see what the car will do". It is really irresponsible to let the car violate traffic laws like that. It was very unsafe.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It is really irresponsible to let the car violate traffic laws like that. It was very unsafe.

This is all about endangering and annoying others for the sake of social media engagement. Pretty selfish for sure.

Also completely and totally pointless. Just drive the car, people… That is what is happening when you use FSDb (b) - you are driving the car! In most cases people don’t drive the wrong way down one-way streets, so I am not sure why you would do that when you are driving the car using FSDb (b).

 

[black knight 3]

Radar was never used to display distance, that has always been, and still is, the ultrasonic sensors. Any chance you have had PPF/wrap applied to the sensors since they were working well?

I have a 2022 model S and don't know why it doesn't perform as well as the other tesla's that I have owned in the past. The sensors are on the cars so it's still using the ultrasonic sensors for judging distance right? There seems to be a noticeable difference in greater latency, delay and inaccuracy than the older cars. The car is PPF'ed but I had them cut around the sensors so they aren't covered.

 

[FSDtester#1]

Happy 4th of July to all the FSD testers!!!!... resist the temptation to show FSD ro any guests after drinking... I don't trust it that much!

 

[black knight 3]

This is an odd regression that occured on one of my common test drives. It involves a left turn with traffic signal and turn lane. It usually handles this correctly other than often merging late into the left turn lane. However, it's been acting strange on the last 3 events and now comes to a full stop on the adjacent normal non-turn lane which has a green late and does not move into the left turn lane with red light. Obviously, this creates quite a scene with nearby vehicles wondering what's going on and getting annoyed. That's obviously common with most testers where they see improvement in some areas and regression in other areas that were working fine before. Also, I tend to do most test runs in the evening with less traffic since FSD is just too disruptive and annoying for most drivers during normal hours.

 

[black knight 3]

Happy 4th of July to all the FSD testers!!!!... resist the temptation to show FSD ro any guests after drinking... I don't trust it that much!

Elon in 2019 said "All cars being produced all have the hardware necessary — computer and otherwise — for full self-driving, All you need to do is improve the software." How many people believe that statement in 2022? I just completed a trip from the Bay Area to Los Angeles and used autopilot on the freeways. During the trip, I encountered 2 severe instances of phantom braking where the car severely braked and slowed from 75 to 40mph in 2-3 seconds. Luckily, no one was following closely as an accident would likely have occurred. My wife was shaken and banned me from using autopilot for the rest of the trip.

this is 2022 folks... and they still can't solve phantom braking for autopilot on the highways after all these years? I really don't think they can achieve the goal to get to L4 through software development alone. To me, the hardware will have to evolve to something very different than what you see in the cars today.

 

[PACEMD]

I've had that kind of phantom braking a few times in 49k miles but I'm not about to let someone tailgate crash me from that. I don't let anyone tailgate me that close anyway, ever. And if they do and I can't shake them because of traffic I'm not about to leave FSD/NOA on. What's behind you and to the sides is just as important as in front. We should all watch the rearview mirrors as much as we watch ahead. If you have ever had a front tire blowout at speed you know what I'm saying. Always drive like what if........including a blowout......or phantom breaking. And take control. People post saying phantom breaking went from 75 to 50. Why did you let it do that?

 

[PACEMD]

By the way, I'm not excusing phantom braking, it's a pain in the ass and a mystery why it still happens. But this is beta software and a well-known problem. Meaning don't let it sneak up on you.......Like all the other imperfections be ready, keep an eye peeled, you the boss......

 

[tmoz]

Elon in 2019 said "All cars being produced all have the hardware necessary — computer and otherwise — for full self-driving, All you need to do is improve the software." How many people believe that statement in 2022? I just completed a trip from the Bay Area to Los Angeles and used autopilot on the freeways. During the trip, I encountered 2 severe instances of phantom braking where the car severely braked and slowed from 75 to 40mph in 2-3 seconds. Luckily, no one was following closely as an accident would likely have occurred. My wife was shaken and banned me from using autopilot for the rest of the trip.

this is 2022 folks... and they still can't solve phantom braking for autopilot on the highways after all these years? I really don't think they can achieve the goal to get to L4 through software development alone. To me, the hardware will have to evolve to something very different than what you see in the cars today.

I believe it is a true statement in a logical sense. He doesn't say how long it will take to write that software. So, hardware above and beyond HW3 may enable the software to be written sooner than if the hardware were not upgraded, IMHO of course.

 

[Supcom]

People post saying phantom breaking went from 75 to 50. Why did you let it do that?

Apparently hoping to get rear ended.

The typical 2-3 seconds that people say this occurs is a long time to sit by and take no action.

 

[black knight 3]

I've had that kind of phantom braking a few times in 49k miles but I'm not about to let someone tailgate crash me from that. I don't let anyone tailgate me that close anyway, ever. And if they do and I can't shake them because of traffic I'm not about to leave FSD/NOA on. What's behind you and to the sides is just as important as in front. We should all watch the rearview mirrors as much as we watch ahead. If you have ever had a front tire blowout at speed you know what I'm saying. Always drive like what if........including a blowout......or phantom breaking. And take control. People post saying phantom breaking went from 75 to 50. Why did you let it do that?

2-3 seconds is an estimate but my reaction time was quicker. it’s not like I was sitting there passively waiting for the event to occur but it happened very quickly and it would have been impossible to anticipate and prevent it.

The point I was trying to make is autopilot on highways has been around for a long time and phantom braking is still unsolved. FSD is a much higher aspiration with more difficult challenges. I’m not an expert but my gut tells me that you’re not going to achieve full self driving with only software updates and with the current Hardware In the cars.

 

[PACEMD]

2-3 seconds is an estimate but my reaction time was quicker. it’s not like I was sitting there passively waiting for the event to occur but it happened very quickly and it would have been impossible to anticipate and prevent it.

The point I was trying to make is autopilot on highways has been around for a long time and phantom braking is still unsolved. FSD is a much higher aspiration with more difficult challenges. I’m not an expert but my gut tells me that you’re not going to achieve full self driving with only software updates and with the current Hardware In the cars.

That's all fine, now worries, but the argument is greatly weakened by the old phantom braking almost killed me rap.......

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

comes to a full stop on the adjacent normal non-turn lane which has a green late and does not move into the left turn lane with red light. Obviously, this creates quite a scene with nearby vehicles wondering what's going on and getting annoyed

I am confused. Why did you stop your vehicle in the through lane? I am pretty sure this would disqualify you in a driver test; examiners do NOT look kindly on excessive caution (for example, I was penalized for stopping briefly on a left turn from the through lane into the DMV - can’t do that!).

 

[Supcom]

I am confused. Why did you stop your vehicle in the through lane? I am pretty sure this would disqualify you in a driver test; examiners do NOT look kindly on excessive caution (for example, I was penalized for stopping briefly on a left turn from the through lane into the DMV - can’t do that!).

Because FSD beta is not the only problem in the vehicle?

 

[black knight 3]

I am confused. Why did you stop your vehicle in the through lane? I am pretty sure this would disqualify you in a driver test; examiners do NOT look kindly on excessive caution (for example, I was penalized for stopping briefly on a left turn from the through lane into the DMV - can’t do that!).

I let the car stop to see what it would do and if it would try and self correct and go back into the correct lane. I've seen that happen before so I was curious to see if it would attempt to do that. In this case, it didn't. I always prevent FSD from operating the vehicle in an unsafe manner as I'm sure all of us do. In this case, there were no safety concerns to let FSD try to figure the situation out. The only drawback was that these actions annoyed other drivers.

The point that I was trying to make was that FSD sometimes regresses in areas that worked fine before. I was hoping to generate discussion with regards to any similar experiences..

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

My car stopped for a small rabbit last night. Saw a little blue object dance across the screen. This is the second time my car stopped for animals in residential areas. One night I thought the car phantom braked for no reason. I let it play out to see if I would see something. A cat trotted by in front of my car. I wonder what maximum speed limit FSD allows this 25? I can be driving down the main drag and bikers and joggers out there with there dogs and I never see the dog only the joggers.

Where is 10.13?? it's been a while now.

 

[boonedocks]

My car, 2021 Model S refresh with FSD Beta totally demolished an opossum Saturday night. Didn’t even begin to acknowledge it. Thank god it didn’t destroy my bumper cover and just decapitated it.