FSD Beta 10.12

[AlanSubie4Life]

Started off well enough but took a hard nosedive after the first few attempts.

This is why I am really hoping for decent traffic on Chuck’s first attempts with 10.69. It’s easy for it when there is no traffic! Better yet it would be good to see what happens when vision is obscured, etc. with the next version.

It does seem like it should be no problem for them to be able to get over 90% success on the next build - it is such an easy turn and the problems it is having seem so easy to fix.

sign and it just goes for the turn without even stopping is pretty insane behavior. Stop sign or not it should know better

It’s a Plaid, it knew it could make it. No time to wait at the stop sign.

See, no problem; had about 3 seconds, trust the car (I am kidding), can be on the other side of the road doing 70mph by the time they get there:

 

[LincolnsDoctor]

I just traded in my 3, which had FSDbeta, for an S, so I lost access to FSDb. Should I request it for the S right away, wait 30 days, or do something else?

 

[MP3Mike]

Thanks. That explains it.

I have no idea why TomTom would show a gap there. I've driven on that road many times for years and I don't remember there being a gap. How old are the TomTom maps? LOL.

Curious what map version was on your car at the time? Was it the 2021 maps, or the 2022 maps that just started rolling out?

 

[diplomat33]

Curious what map version was on your car at the time? Was it the 2021 maps, or the 2022 maps that just started rolling out?

I have the latest 2022 maps. So it is disappointing that the newest maps would have such a mistake. And that road has never had a gap in it so it is puzzling why the latest maps would have a gap like that.

 

[jabloomf1230]

Thanks. That explains it.

I have no idea why TomTom would show a gap there. I've driven on that road many times for years and I don't remember there being a gap. How old are the TomTom maps? LOL.

Also, FSD Beta does not seem to recognize the left turn lane on E Indiana 42 when turning left onto Chamberlain St. FSD Beta stays in the right lane and makes the left turn from the right lane instead of the turn lane as you can see from the path I've drawn. IMO, another example of obsolete maps.

I wish Tesla would use crowdsourcing from the Tesla fleet to update maps like Mobileye does. Teslas drive on these roads all the time. That would be a great way to keep these maps up-to-date and fix these issues.

I reported the error to TomTom but who knows when the update will be included by Tesla.

 

[diplomat33]

I reported the error to TomTom but who knows when the update will be included by Tesla.

Thanks

 

[MP3Mike]

I have the latest 2022 maps. So it is disappointing that the newest maps would have such a mistake. And that road has never had a gap in it so it is puzzling why the latest maps would have a gap like that.

It could be a "watermark" of such. Some companies include bad data on purpose in things like maps, weather forecasts, etc. so that they can see/prove people that are copying their IP. (The chance of someone having the exact same mistake on purpose is very slim.)

Though they normally use "trap streets" that don't actually exist: Map Traps: Intentional Mapping Errors to Combat Plagiarism

 

[diplomat33]

It could be a "watermark" of such. Some companies include bad data on purpose in things like maps, weather forecasts, etc. so that they can see/prove people that are copying their IP. (The chance of someone having the exact same mistake on purpose is very slim.)

Though they normally use "trap streets" that don't actually exist: Map Traps: Intentional Mapping Errors to Combat Plagiarism

A trap street makes sense. Putting a gap in the middle of a normal road, causing the nav to reroute a mile to go around the nonexistent gap, seems weird though.

 

[MP3Mike]

A trap street makes sense. Putting a gap in the middle of a normal road, causing the nav to reroute a mile to go around the nonexistent gap, seems weird though.

In the age of NAV/routing systems, I would say a gap that gets routed around is more desirable than a system trying to route you on a road that doesn't exist.

 

[jabloomf1230]

Well the good news about Chamberlain St is that it looks like at least some of the map data used for routing by Tesla definitely comes from TomTom.

 

[Supcom]

A trap street makes sense. Putting a gap in the middle of a normal road, causing the nav to reroute a mile to go around the nonexistent gap, seems weird though.

If the source data that Tom Tom used has road segments disconnected, then they likely carried the error forward. It's hard to say where this occurred. Tom Tom apparently uses multiple sources, including things like GPS tracks and "community" data sources. Since the streets are not new, I suspect that it's flaws in the Tiger map datasets obtained from the US Government. The old mapping program that I used to use that had similar errors came from there.

It's likely that Tom Tom does their own repairs to this data, but perhaps did not include all the patches from previous versions, resulting in the error.

 

[Dan D.]

Plaid did poorly. Personally I would not show myself traveling at 100mph in a video posted on the interwebs. But arguably not the greatest risk in this video. Hopefully 10.69 will fix everything. I am most curious about whether the car will understand when its vision is obscured (the closest call here).

Watching Plaid drivers use the yoke on FSD Beta never gets old. This driver 'shadows' the wheel with her hand up in the air. Never uses two hands on the wheel during the FSD Beta part of Chuck's turn.






The driver does repeatedly go 100mph in a 50 zone and uses the cellphone while driving, so that's her choice. Not overly impressed with Chuck's acceptance of poor safety here, but seems he was having fun.



I thought there was a chance the white SUV was doing a U-Turn, it had weird positioning in the turn. Didn't occur to the driver or to FSD Beta. Good thing it wasn't.



Lots of bad turns in the second half of the video. A few terrible ones where the car didn't even stop for the stop line but blasted straight onto the road.
Eva "Is it gonna stop".
FSD Beta. Nope
Chuck "We got lucky on that one. That was one of those where it wasn't looking."

 

[thewishmaster]

I thought there was a chance the white SUV was doing a U-Turn, it had weird positioning in the turn. Didn't occur to the driver or to FSD Beta. Good thing it wasn't.
View attachment 840717

Oh yeah I was trying to figure out wtf that SUV was trying to do as well. Maybe trying to be nice and leave a bunch of room so they wouldn't need to cross paths with the tesla once it was clear?

 

[drtimhill]

I suspect there is some kind of map error or speed limit error. The detour is definitely not faster. E Chandler Ave is a residential street with no lane markings. The speed limit is like 15 mph. Chamberlain St has a speed limit of 25 mph, in some places it is 40 mph. Taking the detour through a residential area at 15 mph is not going to be faster.

Does it always do this now? If it goes away in a few days I would guess this was the nav system thinking there was heavy traffic in that block (even if it had cleared) and plotting a detour. Look for the red lines on the map?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Not overly impressed with Chuck's acceptance of poor safety here, but seems he was having fun.

I think maybe once you’ve done a few carrier landings, you might just end up being pretty chill about most things. He wasn’t driving, and it wasn’t his car, so he was doing the best he could.

Personally if I was unfamiliar with it, I would drive the corner myself several times so I could understand how easy a turn it actually is, and how other drivers behave in the vicinity of the turn, before letting FSD try. That way it is easier to know exactly when to override, since as soon as it deviates from correct behavior, you just disengage.

 

[diplomat33]

Does it always do this now? If it goes away in a few days I would guess this was the nav system thinking there was heavy traffic in that block (even if it had cleared) and plotting a detour. Look for the red lines on the map?

I will check it again and see if the error persists.

 

[diplomat33]

Does it always do this now? If it goes away in a few days I would guess this was the nav system thinking there was heavy traffic in that block (even if it had cleared) and plotting a detour. Look for the red lines on the map?

By the way, there is no gap on the map on the screen in my car. So I don't think it is a map error. I checked my navigation settings and it was set to "10 mn" to reroute. So I am thinking that the car simply rerouted because it thought the other route would be quicker, perhaps because Chandler and Milner are labeled as avenues so it thinks those roads are faster. I changed the setting to "30 mn" and will try again and see if that makes a difference.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Lots of bad turns in the second half of the video. A few terrible ones where the car didn't even stop for the stop line but blasted straight onto the road.
Eva "Is it gonna stop".
FSD Beta. Nope
Chuck "We got lucky on that one. That was one of those where it wasn't looking."

I like that Eva is showing Chuck how to lower his disengagement rate, this bodes well for my wager with @AlanSubie4Life.
You really have to trust the system’s superhuman perception.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

You really have to trust the system’s superhuman perception.

Yes, I watched the video some more, and every time when it proceeded without stopping, the traffic was basically clear (at least a two-second gap, an eternity for a Plaid).

This is just part of getting used to a computer with superhuman vision and instant reflexes. It can go before we even know it is ok to proceed. Stop signs are really only there to allow our brains to process; in future they won’t be needed.

So really there was no need to disengage. Trust the AI.

 

[Z_Lynx]

Regarding diplomat33's road gap:
There also seems to be a disconnect between navigation screen and fsdb's creation of imaginary roads. Did not happen with earlier versions on this road.