FSD Beta 10.13

[Daniel in SD]

Do people really creep in to cross traffic and then back up? I've never even considered doing this.
I guess this shows there are different driving styles in different parts of the country! You really have to trust that no one will stop behind or walk behind your car. That's certainly not the convention around here.

 

[momo3605]

Do people really creep in to cross traffic and then back up? I've never even considered doing this.
I guess this shows there are different driving styles in different parts of the country! You really have to trust that no one will stop behind or walk behind your car. That's certainly not the convention around here.

It's not common, but occassionally usually on accident, if you brake too late for a light or you creep into a blind intersection to realize a car is coming fast and you've pulled your nose out too far, i have seen people reverse a little in these instances

 

[Daniel in SD]

It's not common, but occassionally usually on accident, if you brake too late for a light or you creep into a blind intersection to realize a car is coming fast and you've pulled your nose out too far, i have seen people reverse a little in these instances

I've definitely seen people do it after stopping in a crosswalk. I don't think I've ever seen someone do it when trying to pass through an intersection.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

What do you think about China? Do you think FSD Beta can handle the difficult parts of china?

Unfortunately that par for course. Every acouple weeks/months, Elon needs to push and hype a new gimmick to his fans. So you get stuff like "real world ai", "silicon neural network", "vector space", "4D labeling", "4D vision", "vision only", "photons", "single stack", "stop for UFO", blah blah blah.

Some of these things are meanless, others are things companies have been doing for a long time he will hype up as the best thing since sliced bread and that only Tesla is doing it. Now he has run out of things to hype and this "chuck's ULT" is now another.

Just acouple weeks ago in the Cyber Event, he claimed that Dojo was the first ever chip built solely for NN training.
Just pure lies after lies and he knows he's lying. He just knows his fanbase is so gullible, just like Trump's that they will lap up everything he says and preach it to the house top.

I fail to understand why you don't see Chucks ULT as something completely different.

In previous cases Elon could push gimmicky stuff because it never had to really work. It was basically all style over substance.

But, chucks ULT is a very defined case where it either works or it makes the entire FSD Beta thing look like a complete joke.

For those of us who think FSD is a joke this is a great position to be in.

We're basically 2 weeks away from it falling right on its face.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Do people really creep in to cross traffic and then back up? I've never even considered doing this.
I guess this shows there are different driving styles in different parts of the country! You really have to trust that no one will stop behind or walk behind your car. That's certainly not the convention around here.

If I have to back up its because I screwed up.

Driving styles will be different depending on what's forced on us, but I can't ever see creeping and then back up on purpose.

Maybe if your embodiment is that of a car and you have fixed cameras where you have to move to see.

 

[jeremymc7]

In metro areas around here it's not uncommon to have to put your nose out into the intersection to see if it's clear to pull out. Narrow alleyways, Tall building built out to the property line, large trucks - all make it impossible to see otherwise.

When you've got rush hour traffic coming before you can proceed it's a courtesy (sand safety issue) to pull back and let them proceed (as they do have the right of way) before you attempt again.

Going a different route with a controlled light is sometime as better option. But sometimes you have people backed up behind you. Likewise some of underground parking structures have walls coming out to the edge of the street and there might be no bike lane or other buffer between you and oncoming traffic.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Has not Tesla's marketing since 2018 been every car made is FSD capable and will only require a software update? What happens when FSD is realized and its awesome, so now 3 million cars want it...even if they didn't purchase FSD they might have millions wanting to upgrade and anything done outside of the factory is a logistical nightmare.

Autonomy would initially have a very large value. Timing of delivery of the capability matters far more than potential retrofits.

 

[Electroman]

I fail to understand why you don't see Chucks ULT as something completely different.

In previous cases Elon could push gimmicky stuff because it never had to really work. It was basically all style over substance.

But, chucks ULT is a very defined case where it either works or it makes the entire FSD Beta thing look like a complete joke.

For those of us who think FSD is a joke this is a great position to be in.

We're basically 2 weeks away from it falling right on its face.

Agreed. I would give it a 20% of chance of completing 90% of CULT attempts, in the next upcoming release.

 

[kabin]

It's gonna be interesting if this release can overcome potential systemic issues (side camera location, camera resolution at distance, and system latency). Wonder how long the system waits for correct conditions before it punts on the attempt. And how is a punt scored - success/fail/no score?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

And how is a punt scored - success/fail/no score?

In my wager, a punt (right turn) is a failure, each time it occurs. It’s also a failure if the vehicle behind honks (it needs to make sure it leaves room for traffic to turn right if they want, and it has to go when traffic is clear enough - each valid opportunity not taken is a failure).

I guess ideally we’d define a window. I think a 5-second gap should always be taken. Perhaps 6 seconds allowed for fast lane traffic, since that takes longest to clear. For far side, 5 seconds gap is plenty. @Daniel in SD will need to discuss and agree I suppose.

 

[Electroman]

It is a semi-success if it takes a right turn after waiting for some pre-determined time, and then takes a U turn. Perfectly valid in my opinion. I have done that in a few occasions.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It is a semi-success if it takes a right turn after waiting for some pre-determined time, and then takes a U turn. Perfectly valid in my opinion. I have done that in a few occasions.

I’d be willing to assign that a success if it does that after waiting more than three minutes, and no 5/6-second gap has occurred. That would mean it is very busy. But it’s not going to be doing u-turns AFAIK so this is presumably a non-issue.

 

[drtimhill]

Has not Tesla's marketing since 2018 been every car made is FSD capable and will only require a software update? What happens when FSD is realized and its awesome, so now 3 million cars want it...even if they didn't purchase FSD they might have millions wanting to upgrade and anything done outside of the factory is a logistical nightmare.

That's trivial .. they push the price up but the new price includes HW4. That leaves only those who already purchased FSD, which even if they go a free upgrade is a far lower financial burden.

 

[EVNow]

Where in India are you traveling?

Multiple cities in North and South.

 

[EVNow]

What do you think about China? Do you think FSD Beta can handle the difficult parts of china?

That looks extremely timid in comparison.

Basically assume a lot of traffic rules will be broken, lanes not observed etc. Ofcourse local practices in each city is different too.

I have given up on driving when I come here.

Ofcourse FSD can't handle this - not trained to. Neither can Waymo.

 

[VanFriscia]

Do people really creep in to cross traffic and then back up? I've never even considered doing this.

Yes, sometimes there's no other option when visibility is poor. It can be safer to back up vs. slamming the accelerator.

This reminds me of another FSD edge case. There's a stoplight near me in a small rural town (it's the only stoplight in town, actually!) where visibility is basically zero around the corners, but at least there's a NO TURN ON RED sign (of course, FSD doesn't recognize this yet and therefore stupidly tries to creep, but that's another story entirely).

Anyways, tractor trailers often pass through here, and every once in a while one gets stuck trying to make a turn, necessitating that the car sitting at a red light back up so that the truck can get through. If there's no one behind you, cool - you just back up. But, if there IS someone behind you, they need to back up first. And if there's someone behind them, well...etc. This often boils down to visual cues between drivers in a potentially long line of cars, with the person in the back maybe not even knowing what's going on up there. Does it happen often? No. But it definitely happens. Imagine an entire line of cars on FSD trying to make that work

 

[sleepydoc]

Yes, sometimes there's no other option when visibility is poor. It can be safer to back up vs. slamming the accelerator.

..except when you have a Model S plaid with the yoke and wacked up transmission controls

 

[Daniel in SD]

Yes, sometimes there's no other option when visibility is poor. It can be safer to back up vs. slamming the accelerator.

This reminds me of another FSD edge case. There's a stoplight near me in a small rural town (it's the only stoplight in town, actually!) where visibility is basically zero around the corners, but at least there's a NO TURN ON RED sign (of course, FSD doesn't recognize this yet and therefore stupidly tries to creep, but that's another story entirely).

Anyways, tractor trailers often pass through here, and every once in a while one gets stuck trying to make a turn, necessitating that the car sitting at a red light back up so that the truck can get through. If there's no one behind you, cool - you just back up. But, if there IS someone behind you, they need to back up first. And if there's someone behind them, well...etc. This often boils down to visual cues between drivers in a potentially long line of cars, with the person in the back maybe not even knowing what's going on up there. Does it happen often? No. But it definitely happens. Imagine an entire line of cars on FSD trying to make that work

Yeah, this might make my high bar for being an edge case. Though I have definitely had to backup to allow large vehicles to maneuver multiple times in my lifetime (to me a true edge case is something that happens once within a human lifetime of driving, which of course doesn't mean edge cases are rare. Lots of weird stuff happens only once in a lifetime.). Anyway none of this changes the fact that Chuck's ULT is relatively simple because it requires no interaction with other vehicles.

..except when you have a Model S plaid with the yoke and wacked up transmission controls

https://twitter.com/x/status/1557548239938887680

Perhaps the Plaid could take an alternate approach? With a 1.4s 60 foot time it could shoot gaps even if the perception stack is deficient for other models.

 

[tmoz]

It had to happen sooner or later, i.e., FSD appearing on R.N.'s radar screen.

Ralph Nader asks NHTSA to recall Tesla's 'dangerous and irresponsible' FSD

Ralph Nader is calling on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to use its safety recall authority to order FSD technology be removed in every Tesla

techcrunch.com

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Perhaps the Plaid could take an alternate approach? With a 1.4s 60 foot time it could shoot gaps even if the perception stack is deficient for other models.

The bet is only valid for the Model Y porker.

(And also we should define the window length (I say 5 seconds or greater, except for 6 seconds in fast lane on near side) which must be taken advantage of, for our wager. )