Wiki FSD Beta 10.4

[greenmore]

Suggestions to Tesla FSD team (will also email it to them):

There should be a user selectable mode in which each lane change needs to be confirmed by the driver, just like in Navigate on Autopilot.

This would help two ways:
1) Drives would be less stressful, not having to be always ready for sudden and unexpected lane changes.
2) The AI can be trained with it better because the driver's confirmation/cancellation will serve as an annotation/label for NN training.

In the current, fully automatic lane change mode the car often does lane changes that are unnecessary or even wrong, yet I let it go through with it if it's not unsafe, so there is nothing that would label that lane change as "wrong", so it won't be incorporated into the training dataset.

The only disadvantage I can see is that drivers will need to confirm/cancel suggestions very quickly lest the car miss the turn.

 

[3LE-TRK]

10.4 tried to kill me again today. Stop light on a 2 lane road. I get road rage sometimes too but crossing a double yellow at a stop light to get around a car is a recipe for death!

 

[Ramphex]

I love it when it’s switching lanes mid intersection, reminds me of this scene

 

[SilverString]

As of this morning all 10.4 updates are still going only to existing 10.3 beta testers. Many 100 and 99 scores do not have it yet, so what does this mean for the 98s? After driving 10.4 this might be a good thing.

Elon was not kidding about slowing down the release...

 

[d21mike]

Suggestions to Tesla FSD team (will also email it to them):

There should be a user selectable mode in which each lane change needs to be confirmed by the driver, just like in Navigate on Autopilot.

This would help two ways:
1) Drives would be less stressful, not having to be always ready for sudden and unexpected lane changes.
2) The AI can be trained with it better because the driver's confirmation/cancellation will serve as an annotation/label for NN training.

In the current, fully automatic lane change mode the car often does lane changes that are unnecessary or even wrong, yet I let it go through with it if it's not unsafe, so there is nothing that would label that lane change as "wrong", so it won't be incorporated into the training dataset.

The only disadvantage I can see is that drivers will need to confirm/cancel suggestions very quickly lest the car miss the turn.

This is one of my biggest complaints. But I think I would adjust your recommendation. Like, it is ok to auto lane change to FOLLOW NAV but not for other reasons which are mostly for no reason. I think it puts up a message when doing a lane change for NAV. Other times maybe to because wants to pass or maybe wants to get in the right slow lane?

 

[d21mike]

As of this morning all 10.4 updates are still going only to existing 10.3 beta testers. Many 100 and 99 scores do not have it yet, so what does this mean for the 98s? After driving 10.4 this might be a good thing.

Elon was not kidding about slowing down the release...

He sent out a TEXT that if all goes well for a "few days" following Sunday. I think that would be today or most likely tomorrow for NEW Cars on 98,99,100.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

99 here and nothing yet.

 

[gaspi101]

For larger cities I think it needs to be more traffic-aware instead of strictly adhering to centering in lanes. A prime example of an accident I narrowly avoided on the highway is today, driving in a lane that was merging left, NOA puts turn signal and starts to change lanes, but while it's mid-lane change, as soon as the lane lines on the left disappear as the lane is merging into the other, the car decides, NOPE! THE LANE IS BIGGER NOW! TIME TO BE IN THE CENTER OF THE LANE! And abruptly turned RIGHT while in the middle of a left-lane change maneuver. I almost collided with a car passing me on the right, which was passing me on that side while the car was clearly merging into the left lane.

This has happened repeatedly, and I'm always extra careful in these circumstances, but hot damn, this was a violent maneuver...very dangerous.

FSD beta on 10.4 FWIW

 

[d21mike]

For larger cities I think it needs to be more traffic-aware instead of strictly adhering to centering in lanes. A prime example of an accident I narrowly avoided on the highway is today, driving in a lane that was merging left, NOA puts turn signal and starts to change lanes, but while it's mid-lane change, as soon as the lane lines on the left disappear as the lane is merging into the other, the car decides, NOPE! THE LANE IS BIGGER NOW! TIME TO BE IN THE CENTER OF THE LANE! And abruptly turned RIGHT while in the middle of a left-lane change maneuver. I almost collided with a car passing me on the right, which was passing me on that side while the car was clearly merging into the left lane.

This has happened repeatedly, and I'm always extra careful in these circumstances, but hot damn, this was a violent maneuver...very dangerous.

FSD beta on 10.4 FWIW

I just googled standard lane width and it said 12 feet. I have a 2017 MS and have talked at various times about wide lanes (i.e. > 12 feet). I am talking primarily about surface streets. It happens pretty much all the time where it will center a lane that is maybe 20-24 feet wide. My solution which must be extremely hard to do since they have never done anything like it is to "center" on 12 feet from the left lane line instead of the full lane. This is assuming you are in the right lane which happens mostly for me but could be the same if in the far left lane (like in other countries).

 

[gaspi101]

I just googled standard lane width and it said 12 feet. I have a 2017 MS and have talked at various times about wide lanes (i.e. > 12 feet). I am talking primarily about surface streets. It happens pretty much all the time where it will center a lane that is maybe 20-24 feet wide. My solution which must be extremely hard to do since they have never done anything like it is to "center" on 12 feet from the left lane line instead of the full lane. This is assuming you are in the right lane which happens mostly for me but could be the same if in the far left lane (like in other countries).

Maybe you're right...but I would say that they need to work on their traffic-awareness...there was a car passing me on the right, essentially in the same "lane", even though it was two lanes' length while merging into one....the car should have seen that there is another car coming behind and to the right and overtaking, and NOT steered directly into its path. You're right about the lane rules and lengths, but I think in order for it to get to the level of autonomy that we need, the car needs to know when to follow traffic road markings and when to ignore them in order to avoid an accident. It's a difficult thing to ask, but I think it's a fundamental one. Autonomous collision avoidance decisions MUST be front and center of the neural network development, or else this is not going to progress much further than where we are....

 

[Ramphex]

Slow motion today….

 

[d21mike]

Maybe you're right...but I would say that they need to work on their traffic-awareness...there was a car passing me on the right, essentially in the same "lane", even though it was two lanes' length while merging into one....the car should have seen that there is another car coming behind and to the right and overtaking, and NOT steered directly into its path. You're right about the lane rules and lengths, but I think in order for it to get to the level of autonomy that we need, the car needs to know when to follow traffic road markings and when to ignore them in order to avoid an accident. It's a difficult thing to ask, but I think it's a fundamental one. Autonomous collision avoidance decisions MUST be front and center of the neural network development, or else this is not going to progress much further than where we are....

I agree. What if you were in the second lane and not in the first (wide lane) then I would assume it would not change lanes into the right lane if there was a car coming up that lane so I assume it would know the car is there.

 

[AtomicD0G]

There has been some attrition in TeslaFi FSD Beta over the past several days. There are 1,446 total vehicles with 2021.36.5.3, 2021.36.8.5, 2021.36.8.6 software now. There were 1,461 vehicles several days ago. Some may have voluntarily dropped from the beta while others may have been terminated by Tesla. There may be other reasons for the decline in FSD Beta vehicles that escape me

 

[EVNow]

There has been some attrition in TeslaFi FSD Beta over the past several days. There are 1,446 total vehicles with 2021.36.5.3, 2021.36.8.5, 2021.36.8.6 software now. There were 1,461 vehicles several days ago. Some may have voluntarily dropped from the beta while others may have been terminated by Tesla. There may be other reasons for the decline in FSD Beta vehicles that escape me

View attachment 731113

Very small dropout.

Ofcourse there would be a lot of "soft" dropouts - who disabled FSD and just use AP. Given the state of FSD - I'd not be surprised with > 25% drop outs.

 

[Ramphex]

TeslaFi subscription could’ve ended too

 

[Ramphex]

Very small dropout.

Ofcourse there would be a lot of "soft" dropouts - who disabled FSD and just use AP. Given the state of FSD - I'd not be surprised with > 25% drop outs.

That would still keep you on the same FSD beta software though.

 

[EVNow]

That would still keep you on the same FSD beta software though.

Right - and allow you to test once in a while & also try out each new release.

I think people who dropped out probably didn't understand the state of FSD or got a lot of phantom braking so had no choice (coming from radar cars).

 

[Phlier]

That would still keep you on the same FSD beta software though.

Actually, I think you can drop out of the program completely. When you do so, it reverts your car's firmware to the current public release branch version.

 

[Ramphex]

Actually, I think you can drop out of the program completely. When you do so, it reverts your car's firmware to the current public release branch version.

I could see that. I think EV was referring to just turn off the FSD toggle in the settings and using AP. Then turning it back on whenever you feel like playing with it.

 

[tmoz]

I'm a little surprised that there have been no collisions among the beta testers, at least none that I'm aware of.
At this point, FSD is certainly adding a lot more stress on the drivers than no FSD, at least that is the impression I get.