FSD Beta 10.69

[AlanSubie4Life]

But then, due to personal reasons I'm not going to get into (and aren't pertinent to the discussion anyway), I didn't drive my car from April until about eight days ago.

Glad you are back driving in any case. I don’t think you missed much here! I hope all is well as can be.

I agree it is way better than it was many months back (I have said this several times here).

It’s just nowhere near where it needs to be. If Elon and others were saying FSD has a long, long way to go, and is very very rough, I’d be much happier with the state of things.

I don’t like the detachment from reality I guess.

To be clear, I bought FSD as a toy and never expected driving assist to work. I was hopeful that the background safety features would make it harder to accidentally crash the car, at some point (main reason for purchase, plus entertainment value).

But it is being pushed as a tool. And as a tool, utility is measured by being able to have something that will drive for much more than about a minute on average (current state) on streets with turns and traffic lights, before you have to intervene (to slow down, or to speed up, or to get lane selection correct). It would be nice to get to an hour between interventions. And to be impeccably smooth and anticipatory.

Just don’t think it is going to happen, unfortunately.

Right now far too many slowdowns to traffic lights/turns (particularly from high speed on downhill grades without lead vehicles) are an unacceptable jerkfest.

Meanwhile Elon has been talking about polish for months and months. That’s where the disconnect is.

 

[Phlier]

It’s just nowhere near where it needs to be. If Elon and others were saying FSD has a long, long way to go, and is very very rough, I’d be much happier with the state of things.

Now that's a statement we can both agree on, for sure.

I appreciate the well-wishes... yup, everything is pretty good on my end now.

 

[JulienW]

Of course, and that's why water drains counterclockwise north of the equator........right? You say tomato I say potato........

Actually that is a myth. Drains are far too small to be effected by the Coriolis effect and can drain in either direction depending of their construction (toilets too).

Also I say topato.

Does water go down the drain counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere and clockwise in the southern hemisphere?

It all depends upon how the water was introduced and the geometric structure of the drain. Handwashing over a sink. Amanda Mills, CDC photographer, 2011. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Public Health Image Library. One can find both counterclockwise and clockwise flowing drains in...

www.loc.gov

 

[FSDtester#1]

It's funny, Alan, you and I used to share the same position on the state of FSDb. But then, due to personal reasons I'm not going to get into (and aren't pertinent to the discussion anyway), I didn't drive my car from April until about eight days ago.

I was surprised/amazed/jaw dropped when I compare my memory of the state of FSDb from April to the software currently installed. Sure, it wanders a lot (and this is a big problem for me as we have a ton of unmarked roads here, as well as extremely wide lanes that only have a center line marking), but as far as overall performance? I used to only use FSDb when I had no passengers in the car, late at night, with very light traffic. Nowadays, I'm using it on every drive, even when the wife is installed.

Having the unique perspective of skipping a bunch of versions really makes it clear how much progress has been made and I'm thoroughly impressed.

I've also personally validated Elon's statement of needing all the input from the fleet to make this possible. You remember how I used to complain about how poorly FSDb performed where I live vs how great it performed in Las Vegas? My town has seen a dramatic increase in the number of Teslas on the road. Correspondingly, I now see very little difference in FSDb performance between my little backwater town vs Las Vegas. Take this paragraph with the largest grain of salt you can imagine, and possibly not just a little tongue-in-cheek.

Honestly, I have no idea what caused this great equalization in geographical FSDb improvement, but the above is fun(?) speculation regardless.

Today, I'm having more fun with FSDb than I did when I initially got the thing. I'm also updating my guess on full-on FSD arrival date: My previous guess was three to five years. I just threw a dart at the board, and it came up one to three years. YMMV.

One man's poop is another man's toy. Whodathunkit?

Well said, and I couldn't agree more that us who have been using everyday and discussing it might be missing the forest through the trees. There probably is a method to the madness of our usual 2 steps forward and 1 step back summaries from release to release. We just aren't privy to what the fsd team is doing and thinking. Could they possibly and knowingly be sending out releases to test certain things that they want us all to use fsd with and then get massive feedback and data from? I am pretty certain they wouldn't knowingly risk safety. However when they do find a safety problem it probably takes the highest priority. My feathers have been getting ruffled with this build and I am one of the more lenient in regards to progress on this thread. So when I am concerned and whining, I feel bad for the people who have a tendency to call balls and strikes and their experiences. So I am gonna take a chill pill and see what's in store for the next release. Thanks for sharing perspective from a 10,000 feet observation.

Off topic, for a pilot, @Phlier , I figured you should be able to spell "Flier" correctly .


Edit: I also am happy to hear you and the family are doing well and you are back posting more!

 

[Dan D.]

Here is the amazing video. You’ll see three instances of veering, each marked by guffawing/tittering.
New behavior. I have actually never seen this with any prior version.

Broken! Good enough for wider narrow release though it seems.

Amazing zero intervention drive though (except for navigation correction, and for a tiny accelerator application at the second stop sign). And yes, the first stop was a California stop.

FSD Beta does not display the flatbed trailer until it's right next to you. It detects the car and box truck at a distance. Why not the flatbed trailer? I noticed this about a year ago on Frenchie's video I think. Is there a problem with seeing large flatbed trailers?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

FSD Beta does not display the flatbed trailer until it's right next to you. It detects the car and box truck at a distance. Why not the flatbed trailer? I noticed this about a year ago on Frenchie's video I think. Is there a problem with seeing large flatbed trailers?

View attachment 880316

I definitely had a firm grasp with my left hand torquing left when passing this. I never assume it sees parked vehicles. Not clear to me whether it saw it or not. Would have to do more trials. Empty flatbeds are probably pretty common here at night.

 

[aronth5]

Would be nice if it rained here. Would spare me the trouble of disengaging FSD myself.

What a pile.

I am still in “excessively negative outlook” mode, I guess. I guess I am tiring of literally and figuratively getting jerked around.

Maybe I should post some strongly narrated videos, to get my frustration out.

I think you're trying too hard to have FSD drive the way you do. It's not going to. Once I understand this I began to disengage less and focused mostly on those differences that were strictly safety related. Of course FSD still does way too many stupid things.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I think you're trying too hard to have FSD drive the way you do. It's not going to. Once I understand this I began to disengage less and focused mostly on those differences that were strictly safety related.

Disengagements are one way Tesla will get feedback.

The way I drive isn’t anything special. It is just normal. Anticipate, slow down smoothly, speed up smoothly and promptly, etc. Whatever is required to pass a driving test.

The bar is not to just have drives where the car doesn’t get in an accident! Too low. Way too low.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

Anyone else noticing the old annoying hard braking on the crest of SOME hills? I’ve got a couple roads that this happens on now. This used to occur back on the public builds as far back as 2020, maybe earlier? Never saw this on FSDb until this release? Also noticing on SOME turns, car almost stops to make the turn, makes the turn than hangs out at a speed of around 20-25mph for some time before accelerating to the correct speed limit?

“Wide release”… maybe 10.69.3.2 will prove better?

 

[sleepydoc]

FSD Beta does not display the flatbed trailer until it's right next to you. It detects the car and box truck at a distance

Think of object recognition in FSD like asking a 3 year old what a water buffalo is - they'll tell you it's a cow because that's the closest animal in their lexicon.

The way I drive isn’t anything special. It is just normal

Normal for you. Maybe not normal for anyone else. 'normal' is a matter of perspective and there's a wide range of 'normal' and acceptable driving styles. If you look around you as you drive you'll see other people driving differently. They think they're driving normally, too. The goal of FSD isn't to drive like you do, it's to drive safely.

I'm not arguing that FSD has achieved its goals yet but if they set a goal of driving like every individual driver wants they'll never achieve it.

Anyone else noticing the old annoying hard braking on the crest of SOME hills?

Yes. Phantom braking seems to be worse again, too (on the few times I use TACC instead of FSD)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Normal for you. Maybe not normal for anyone else. 'normal' is a matter of perspective and there's a wide range of 'normal' and acceptable driving styles. If you look around you as you drive you'll see other people driving differently. They think they're driving normally, too. The goal of FSD isn't to drive like you do, it's to drive safely.

I really disagree with this assessment. As Tesla’s release notes show, the correct driving behavior is objective and quantifiable.

Some people drive wrong, no question about it. And everyone makes high jerk moves (which are typically related to mistakes). But let’s be clear that correct behavior is measurable and knowable. And hopefully Tesla can achieve it.

This isn’t some sort of impossible goal. We’ll see massive improvement in the coming years, I am quite sure. Nothing unreasonable here. Just would like to see it ASAP and one way to provide feedback is to disengage.

 

[aronth5]

I really disagree with this assessment. As Tesla’s release notes show, the correct driving behavior is objective and quantifiable.

There is more than 1 way to drive safely and successfully and they can all be objective and quantifiable.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

There is more than 1 way to drive safely and successfully and they can all be objective and quantifiable.

Again the metric is not safely!

This is well studied.

 

[EVNow]

FSD Beta does not display the flatbed trailer until it's right next to you. It detects the car and box truck at a distance. Why not the flatbed trailer? I noticed this about a year ago on Frenchie's video I think. Is there a problem with seeing large flatbed trailers?

I think I posted this once - golf carts were shown has huge trucks (it just added 2 golf carts together - many were going in a row).

BTW, I'm extra careful around flatbed trucks. Never sure whether FSD knows where the back of the truck is.

As Tesla’s release notes show, the correct driving behavior is objective and quantifiable.

True but (1) normal is still a range

ps : In somewhat related news, they didn't talk about Semi having FSD/AP during delivery.

 

[D Good]

I think I posted this once - golf carts were shown has huge trucks (it just added 2 golf carts together - many were going in a row).

BTW, I'm extra careful around flatbed trucks. Never sure whether FSD knows where the back of the truck is.



True but (1) normal is still a range

View attachment 880347

ps : In somewhat related news, they didn't talk about Semi having FSD/AP during delivery.

It definitely has it. They were using some form of navigate on autopilot on the 500 mile drive. There are also a bunch of cameras all over the mirrors.

 

[aronth5]

Again the metric is not safely!

This is well studied.

All I really care about is safety for me and other drivers I may be affecting. What am I missing?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

All I really care about is safety for me and other drivers I may be affecting. What am I missing?

Yep. That is correct. We’re discussing a higher bar, does not exclude safety of course.

 

[nvx1977]

All I really care about is safety for me and other drivers I may be affecting. What am I missing?

i also care about comfort and efficiency (the two are often related). I'd also add adapting to local driving culture, but I feel like that's actually part of safety (being predictable to other drivers)

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

When I pull into my garage, on the driver side of my car there is one 1979 Yamaha SRX 440 and one 2012 Yamaha Apex XTX. They show up as motorcycles. Pretty fitting, as snowmobiles do look kinda like motorbikes. My 1 series (vomit, time for a 3039R) John Deere tractor with a blower displays as an suv. With the blower off, it displays as a car, so it definitely knows length (as the blower adds like 3ft to the overall length of the machine) although not represented “correctly”. It knows cars are shorter than most suv’s.

Car also did now visualize a larger farm tractor pulling a manure spreader ready to pull out onto the roadway on the way home the other afternoon. I found that odd? It was a large mass of vehicle, surprising not displayed. I feel other builds would have rendered that as an suv or semi?

 

[EVNow]

It definitely has it. They were using some form of navigate on autopilot on the 500 mile drive. There are also a bunch of cameras all over the mirrors.

Nope.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1598496033113223168