FSD Beta 10.69

[PACEMD]

wonder if it has anything to do with the “single stack”

Something has changed with the FSDb software affecting NOA behavior. Working on single stack is a good guess. I am still experimenting to see if I can determine what it wants me to do but without a warning, it's hard to determine. I suspect it wants jiggling more often but that's just a guess. It's clearly not eye movement/attention/camera related.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I suspect it wants jiggling more often but that's just a guess.

You should not have gotten strikes or disablement without warning (except with a defeat device, which will give you a strike with no warning at all, after 10 minutes of use).

To start with, I would use your hands firmly on the wheel to torque it, carefully and consciously and consistently, to completely eliminate any nags. (And of course remove any defeat prior to this.)

In that case, assuming looking ahead, you should be able to complete a drive without disablement.

If that works, then you can experiment further from there.

The first step is to make it work again. Rules out a lot of things when it works. Then you can go back to breaking it.

 

[PACEMD]

No one is suggesting the equipment is broken. It could be malfunctioning though.

Or, if you use a helper device and do not torque the wheel manually, this behavior would be exactly what is expected - operating successfully, as designed.

Do you get any warnings (torque or attention)?

No, as I said in detail, red screen, two blue flashes, and strike, all in seconds with no opportunity to correct. That is what is new and so odd.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

No, as I said in detail, red screen, two blue flashes, and strike, all in seconds with no opportunity to correct. That is what is new and so odd.

Yes, when I said “no warning” with a defeat device, that is what I mean.

Not talking about the red screen. That’s not a warning (once you get to that point there is nothing you can do). Just talking about the quiet prompts to torque (not even the blue flashing - should never get to that point). You should be getting those warnings (not sure what they look like on all vehicles or where they show up).

 

[PACEMD]

You should not have gotten strikes or disablement without warning (except with a defeat device, which will give you a strike with no warning at all, after 10 minutes of use).

To start with, I would use your hands firmly on the wheel to torque it, carefully and consciously and consistently, to completely eliminate any nags. (And of course remove any defeat prior to this.)

In that case, assuming looking ahead, you should be able to complete a drive without disablement.

If that works, then you can experiment further from there.

Listen, I have driven this exact route with FSD/NOA for over 50k miles, with one strike. We all get warnings where we have to tweak the pressure or jiggle the wheel, but always a warning before a strike. Not now. I have now had this happen on three commutes, consistently.

 

[PACEMD]

Yes, when I said “no warning” with a defeat device, that is what I mean.

Not talking about the red screen. That’s not a warning (once you get to that point there is nothing you can do). Just talking about the quiet prompts to torque (not even the blue flashing - should never get to that point). You should be getting those warnings (not sure what they look like on all vehicles or where they show up).

Right, the defective device is the software. And thanks for the beginners to FSD/NOA driving advice.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

No, as I said in detail, red screen, two blue flashes, and strike, all in seconds with no opportunity to correct. That is what is new and so odd.

Sorry, I actually missed this post and only caught the subsequent one. FSD Beta 10.69

So sorry about that. Missed all those details.

We all get warnings where we have to tweak the pressure or jiggle the wheel, but always a warning before a strike. Not now. I have now had this happen on three commutes, consistently.

So you do not use a helper device?

If not, sounds like a software issue for sure.

Still, would be interesting to see video, since it is so consistent apparently.

I’ve had it crash and disable AEB (see above). So weird stuff happens. But no disablement there (it was disabled, but not the same thing as a disablement).

 

[PACEMD]

Yes, when I said “no warning” with a defeat device, that is what I mean.

Not talking about the red screen. That’s not a warning (once you get to that point there is nothing you can do). Just talking about the quiet prompts to torque (not even the blue flashing - should never get to that point). You should be getting those warnings (not sure what they look like on all vehicles or where they show up).

Read the post, red screen, no warning, strike.......that's what I said because that's what happens. I damn well know the warnings, how to correct, and all the reasons they occur. I use FSD/NOA more than most, almost exclusively, and for over 50,000 miles, always driving the same. Only now it disconnects.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Read the post, red screen, no warning, strike....

As I said, I am sorry, but I missed that post originally. In any case what you are describing, yes, is not a warning.

This sounds similar to what people who have used defeat devices have described. I have wondered how well their software can discriminate between a defeat device and constant torque. Seems like it should be very easy, but this could be a counter example (easy to check that too, of course).

 

[MP3Mike]

Read the post, red screen, no warning, strike.......that's what I said because that's what happens. I damn well know the warnings, how to correct, and all the reasons they occur. I use FSD/NOA more than most, almost exclusively, and for over 50,000 miles, always driving the same. Only now it disconnects.

Right, but what you are describing is the expected behavior of the current software if you have a weight attached to the steering wheel.

Can you confirm that you are seeing this and do not have a steering wheel weight?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

There are several threads on weights and how they are now defeated (just search for weight), but here is the experiment post, done with 10.69.3.1, for the record (there is a follow up detailed post describing the not-a-warning warning, too):

Autopilot buddy code is changed?

I did a follow-up test. Not only did adjusting the volume via the steering wheel scroll wheel after 9.5 minutes not prevent the nag, I actually got a forced disengagement got the first time at the 10 minute mark (or so). Idk why I got a forced disengagement this time and not on my previous test...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[PACEMD]

Could this be a hardware issue, cameras or such, that by coincidence manifest at exactly the same time as the software update? Sure, anything is possible. And with others reporting the same thing? When you get chased out of the bounds of statistics your theories require a bit more work.

 

[MP3Mike]

Could this be a hardware issue, cameras or such, that by coincidence manifest at exactly the same time as the software update?

There is no point discussing this further until you answer the question: Do you use a weight on your steering wheel?

 

[thewishmaster]

My final take on 10.69.3.1 after a handful more drives: FSDb is back in the “unusable” column because it’s just so bad around parked cars. There’s no way to drive past a car moving in the opposite direction on an unmarked road without jerky steering and unnecessary phantom braking, and in marked roads it will constantly swerve too close to the lane divider to the left if you’re in the right lane moving past parked cars. It also angles way too far to the right when crossing some intersections, if there’s only one lane or if I’m in the right lane. Hope v11 improves this type of behavior.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Plausible deniability, for sure. I think we are done here though.

Quite a waste of perfectly good posts.

Strap a weight onto the steering wheel

A couple things I haven't seen mentioned in this thread (but certainly have in others that are similar). If you have concerns about the torque threshold of clearing the warning without breaking Autosteer, then use the thumbwheels to turn volume (or TACC speed) up and then back down a tick...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Phlier]

There is nothing wrong with my cameras, I drove to work 150 miles with NOA functioning as always, updated the software, and driving home was not the same.

No, I mean the cabin camera that watches your eyes, not the exterior cameras.

You can try to dismiss this all you want,

Please don't get the impression that I'm being dismissive. I have zero doubt that this is happening to you, I'm just trying to help you get to the bottom of it.

This just isn't right that people are getting strikes for no reason, and we gotta figure it out.

 

[Rikster]

During a drive tonight on FSDb, I was on the Interstate cruising along at 70 mph when I saw some flashing red police lights a half mile (or so) ahead. My car slowed down to about 60 mph, and I got a message on the screen saying something like, "Autopilot slowing for Emergency Vehicles Ahead." This surprised me, as I thought I had read in this forum that FSDb doesn't currently recognize or respond to Emergency Vehicles?

 

[MP3Mike]

This just isn't right that people are getting strikes for no reason, and we gotta figure it out.

But there is a reason: they are using a wheel weight to try to defeat the hands on the wheel requirement.

 

[D Good]

During a drive tonight on FSDb, I was on the Interstate cruising along at 70 mph when I saw some flashing red police lights a half mile (or so) ahead. My car slowed down to about 60 mph, and I got a message on the screen saying something like, "Autopilot slowing for Emergency Vehicles Ahead." This surprised me, as I thought I had read in this forum that FSDb doesn't currently recognize or respond to Emergency Vehicles?

Navigate on autopilot will do this, not FSD beta to my knowledge.

 

[PACEMD]

There is no point discussing this further until you answer the question: Do you use a weight on your steering wheel?

That is a very valid, and in fact the question. Let me first say that a gentleman never indulges in discussions concerning Tesla versus Edison, arguments about the new Tesla user interface, and most importantly Tesla nag cheaters. Let me just say that my applied torque to the wheel has, for over 50k miles, been very consistent. That is the reason I questioned if varying that torque more periodically in the new software was the issue. If the new software was assuming a persistent constant torque to the wheel was the result of a so-called nag cheater. However that consistent torque is applied a warning has always in the past been issued before a strike. Some people have varied that torque by grabbing the wheel if the hands were temporarily off, shaking the wheel if the hands were already on, or scrolling the left wheel/knob. If there is no warning there is no way to know when that constant torque should be varied, if that is indeed the issue. Constant torque in the past has not been an issue, perhaps it now is. In any case, I will figure out what it wants and correct that. Assumptions that lead to erroneous dismissals should, when possible, be anticipated.......